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Throbbing Brian, please help

JNL

Cyburbian
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Okay between us collectively we've got quite a bit of experience in relationships. Need Throbbing Brian's help on this one :)

Do you think it is possible for a healthy, happy, lasting relationship to evolve from a situation where two people meet while one of them is still in a relationship with someone else? Or, is the person who is involved with someone displaying bad behaviour and should be avoided?

My, ahem, friend is trying to figure out if this guy she likes is just messing with her or if there might be some potential there :-\
 

NHPlanner

A shadow of my former self
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Possible....but tough.

I'm in sort of the same situation, as when I met Planner Groupie we were both still married, but seperated. I'm now divorced, and hers is proceeding through the divorce process. There are lots of hurdles and obstacles in this kind of relationship.....and they never seem to end.

I guess it depends on how serious the guy is in the current relationship....but I wouldn't hold out too much hope......
 

donk

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Just remember these comments are coming from one of cyburbia's confirmed bachelors/relationship challenged.

I have two friends, well more former friends who got involved after a similar situation.

He was dating/living with another girl, she wanted him and chased him down. They are now getting married (almost 5 years later). I don't think their relationship is too healthy and have started a pool with my buddies about when the divorce will be.

Too bad Jessie-J is not around, she was pondering a similar thing a few months ago.
 

Repo Man

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It can work if your relationship is based on something more than infatuation and the excitement of doing something that you may get caught at. I dated a girl in college who was engaged (he was in the military). She ended up dumping him and we dated for about 2 years, so it can work.
 

biscuit

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Sure it can work out, just proceed with caution.

A long story short...
I have this "friend" who had been dating a girl who was head over heels for him and would do have anything for him. Unfortunately the realtionship wasn't in the best of shape. One of the best friends of my "friends" girlfriend then caught his eye. After a little while of keeping it on the downlow they decided to make a go of it. Needless to say, my "friend" broke up with his girlfriend and started a relationship with her friend. They've happily been togther for almost five years and are getting married this summer. :h:
 

JNL

Cyburbian
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Repo Man said:
It can work if your relationship is based on something more than infatuation and the excitement of doing something that you may get caught at.
Good point, but how do you figure out if there could be more there, when you're not really supposed to spend time with them? I think he needs to sort himself out before I, I mean she :-$, gets involved. Is hard though. She hasn't met anyone like him for a long time.
 

The Irish One

Member
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I flip flop on this issue.

Tell her to hold out on sex if she's not sure. (Assuming she's sexualy active) My thoughts on relationships is anything worth doing takes time and effort. I think the situation is possible.
 

michaelskis

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I think that it is possible. My best friend has been dating and living with his ex's best friend. They started to have feeling for each other when he was still with his ex. They are talking marrage, and it is the happiest that I have ever seen either of them.
 
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Statistically, (and I know you didn't say "married") men rarely "leave their wife FOR the other woman". If a man gets involved with someone else while married/committed to someone, he is usually looking to get needs met that the first gal isn't meeting (emotional, psychological, sexual, whatever). The vast majority of the time, when a man leaves his wife and moves in with The Other Woman, that relationship is doomed to end within about a year or so. She met needs of his that were unmet within his primary relationship and her ability to meet that specific set of needs generally does not mean she is capable of meeting all of his needs.

After he gets through the trauma of the divorce, he no longer "needs" what she has to offer, he ditched the wife because that relationship wasn't "whole" and he realizes this one isn't either and ditches her so that he can replace two women with one who is better suited to him as a real partner. Alternately, meeting his emotional needs can serve to stabilize his primary relationship and keep it limping along indefinitely. This is one other pattern (of about 3 patterns) for "affairs": if they aren't sought out as a means to help him get free of his primary relationship, they may fill in the gap and allow him to stay with a woman who can only meet SOME of his needs but he values her generally and just needs this one gap filled (often sexually and emotionally).

Additionally, it has been my observation that relationships based upon one person "rescuing" the other when there wasn't a solid basis of friendship and respect which predated The Crisis are usually doomed to either be sick, twisted situations in which the Rescuee is excessively Grateful forever and ever until death do us part (possibly via one of them murdering the other) or to end when the Rescuee genuinely heals and gets strong and they walk because they are tired of being seen as helpless and needy and not genuinely respected and having no parity in a situation where the Rescuer feels they are Owed Big Time.

In other words: the odds are long.

But I don't generally bet The Odds. I bet on my faith in myself. I have beaten a lot of long odds. I think the antidote to all the statistics is to focus on insisting it be a HEALTHY relationship and be willing to let it go or confront the issues when you get that "ooh, ick, something is not right here" feeling in reaction to something. You don't have to know what is not right or why it is not right. Just honor your internal "radar". That is the only way any relationship of any kind makes it in the long run.

Also, if you understand statistics, "one in a million" odds means that someone, somewhere is GUARANTEED to be that ONE out of that million. Why not you?
 

JNL

Cyburbian
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Interesting, MZ... he separated from his wife not that long ago and the woman he is with now is his first relationship since his marriage. Hmm.

Scary/strange coincidence is, his current g/f and I share the same name!
 

nerudite

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It depends on the people. I know people who have had successful relationships in the same situation (and some that didn't). One woman was constantly worried and jealous that her guy would find another woman the same way that he found her, and it ended up ruining them in the end. Another couple though, two very laid back people, are still doing fine after several years together now.

Regardless of whether the guy would be serious or not, is your 'friend' the laid back type or moer of the jealous type? That will make a huge difference in the success in the long run.
 
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JNL said:
Good point, but how do you figure out if there could be more there, when you're not really supposed to spend time with them? I think he needs to sort himself out before I, I mean she :-$, gets involved. Is hard though. She hasn't met anyone like him for a long time.
I have said this in Cyburbia before (when I was really toasted on meds and it didn't go over well, in the context): "Relationship" is based on RELATING -- not dating, not sex, etc. You can relate via e-mail and IM and phone calls without raising too many eyebrows, if you are discrete. And if he doesn't want to "talk" to you via IM, etc, cuz that impedes his ability to drool down the front of your shirt and try to talk you out of it, then that is a pretty good clue that that "something more" isn't there and you can walk and tell him "Get back to me when you are no longer so needy/ no longer such a jerk/ single and not so confused/ grown up/ whatever."
 

JNL

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nerudite said:
Regardless of whether the guy would be serious or not, is your 'friend' the laid back type or moer of the jealous type?
Oooh introspective self-analysis required.. hard to say. Haven't been in a serious relationship for about 2 years and have changed a LOT in that time. I'd like to think I'm the laid-back type, but I wonder about the trust issue. I think I have a pretty good 'internal radar', but because of 2 relationships last year, have developed cynicism about relationships as a kind of protective barrier (I did mean cynicism MZ :)).
 

SkeLeton

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If it was up to me, I'd do a slow aproach, get to know the guy more and wait until the guy cuts lose of the other girl...
JMHO.
 

Queen B

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Well quite frankly I like it when Brian throbs but that is a personal preference!

My opinion would have to be that it would really depend on where that person is at in their current relationship, if it is over and they just haven't moved on, proceed with caution and do some serious thinking about how much crap you are willing to put up with through the ending of the other relationship.

Although it is not the recommended way to end relationships, I have a track record of not leaving one until I find another. I Know. I didn't say, that is what I would recommend. But in my cases, the relationships were over on my part so moving on was not a problem.
It is a whole different sinerio than the guy that is just out to have an affair and has no intention of leaving his wife.
For what it is worth!
 
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SkeLeton said:
If it was up to me, I'd do a slow aproach, get to know the guy more and wait until the guy cuts lose of the other girl...
JMHO.
Don't take this wrong Skel but your advice is the humble opinion of someone seeing no action whatsoever (according to you -- I don't know anything but what you say about yourself). In reality, if you give a guy the cold shoulder long enough and wait for him to prove how Virtuous he is and how "good" his "intentions" are, etc, ... he is going to go get some human warmth from some warm-blooded gal who is willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and not imply that he is probably Evil Incarnate by her paranoid refusal to consider trusting him as a person. And then she will marry him, have his kiddos, screw him twice a week and scream at him regularly for his short comings and Ms. Excessively Prissy will be singing that song about "always a bridesmaid, never a bride".

Mr. Zone landed in my bed..er, um, began "dating" me while still pining for his ex-girlfriend who had dumped him like a week or two earlier and he was swearing it was True Love, he WOULD "get her back", blah, blah, blah. The first week was really tough while the guy who had been my best friend for a year or so raked me over the coals with his lack of noticing that I was now the warm body ...er woman adoring him and she was that b**** who had dumped him to go back to the jerk she dumped originally to get with him. <I roll my eyes> We got married 18 months later. Treating a man like he has to first prove he is some kind of Saint before you will deign to give him the time of day is a sure way to spend a whole lot of time alone. Nobody is perfect.
 

JNL

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Michele Zone said:
if you give a guy the cold shoulder long enough and wait for him to prove how Virtuous he is and how "good" his "intentions" are, etc, ... he is going to go get some human warmth from some warm-blooded gal who is willing to give him the benefit of the doubt
I have to disagree. I have learnt from experience that jumping in quickly, when you have some doubts, and hoping that things will work out... often doesn't. I like SkeL's advice and I think that if this guy is not willing to wait around then he wasn't worth it anyway. I'm tired of emotional dramas... and I'm only 24!
 

Rumpy Tunanator

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JNL said:
I'm tired of emotional dramas... and I'm only 24!
Don't worry vintage year one, your time will come:)

I have a friend with a similar dilema. This person is in a current rendevous and is having doubts about it, in the likes of whether they'll be happy in the au current, or happy and most likely healthy, sane down a different route. There's alot to be decided, but the ship seems to be slowly sinking and trying to veer off course for smoother waters. Only time will tell how the ship weathers the storm, thats for the moment calm......

Go slow, wait and see what happens, and if nothing more comes out of it, a friendship might.
 
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JNL said:
I have to disagree. I have learnt from experience that jumping in quickly, when you have some doubts, and hoping that things will work out... often doesn't. I like SkeL's advice and I think that if this guy is not willing to wait around then he wasn't worth it anyway. I'm tired of emotional dramas... and I'm only 24!
That has nothing to do with what I said. If you have some doubts, I reiterate: ALWAYS trust your internal radar. Trust that above my advice, the guy's sweet talk, the gossip of friends and neighbors, the opinions of critical parents and friends who think you have lost your mind, etc etc etc. If your internal radar is giving you signals that scream that moving forward would be a sure way to be the next gal in his rear view mirror covered with his tire tracks from getting run over, then suddenly have a pressing date to wash your hair tonight (an obscure but great Bette Davis movie line). However, if you wait until it is A Sure Thing -- it never will get that far. A relationship takes time to build. Notice that I did not say I married Mr. Zone the next week. I said I married him 18 months later.

But remembering that men are human and THIS particular man is not the same as the bozos in your past who left you scarred and cynical is your only hope for putting that behind you and getting on with life anyway. While listening to and honoring your internal radar, try to make sure that the alarm bells you hear going off are genuinely about little details of THIS situation that nag at you and are not mere echoes of ghosts from the past. While a lot of emotional bonding can result from a man being considerate of your bruises from previous men, he does have a legitimate right to eventually say "God, what a Pscyho" and move on when he gets tired of paying for what they did to you.

You and SkeL are both really young from my point of you. When I was your age, I had a toddler and a newborn infant and had been married 5 years and was living in a foreign country, doing enormous therapy. You do not find love by being a 'good time Charlie'. You probably wouldn't dream of ditching a girlfriend when times get rocky and telling her "call me when your emotional drama is over and we will have drinks". You would never hear from her again, and with good reason. If you treat men like human beings first and foremost, you will have no end of male attention. Men are just as averse to being treated like a "commodity" as women are. They have just as much legitimate need as you have to be understood, genuinely cared for as a human being, and so on. Given that you have a Brain and a real career (not just a job), you really can have your pick of highly eligible men. But you will have to get over any youthful fantasy that "true love" comes without pain, emotional drama, etc -- that it flowers in some kind of Nirvana where everything goes right, all the time. Real friends will take you to the emergency room, let you ruin their new silk blouse by blubbering on their shoulder if it is a genuine crisis (like a car wreck, not like getting dumped by boyfriend number 42), and so on. Real lovers will stick around for that type stuff too. And if you aren't willing to bleed a little for them, don't be shocked when they aren't willing to bleed a little for you. Just make sure you aren't being bled dry and it is reciprocal: if you bleed for him and he suddenly has to wash his hair when you need a shoulder to cry, don't walk, RUN.
 

JNA

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donk said:
Just .... one of cyburbia's confirmed bachelors/relationship challenged.
Donk - you aren't the only one, am sorry to admit. :-$
 

Zoning Goddess

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Studies show.... and have for many years, that when a man dumps his wife for the other woman, she is his "crutch" to get thru the divorce. Then she's a reminder of the bad times, and he moves on. Guess it could also be true if a wife dumps hubby. Maybe it's not as traumatic if they were not married, don't know.

Your friend should be trying to read between the lines and be honest with herself: if what he's saying doesn't seem upfront and real, it isn't.
 

Cardinal

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JNL said:
I have to disagree. I have learnt from experience that jumping in quickly, when you have some doubts, and hoping that things will work out... often doesn't. I like SkeL's advice and I think that if this guy is not willing to wait around then he wasn't worth it anyway. I'm tired of emotional dramas... and I'm only 24!
I think you may have answered your question? For what its worth, I also like Skel's (wise beyond his years) advice.
 

The Irish One

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. I like SkeL's advice and I think that if this guy is not willing to wait around then he wasn't worth it anyway. I'm tired of emotional dramas... and I'm only 24!
Damn staight, you should be having fun and making money , travel, work, fun or whatever your motivations are in life. If you smell emotional chaos, RUN LIKE HELL!
If you want a good start to a relationships just forget about all this crap and do your own thing. Before you know it you'll meet someone (bars don't count) special.
 
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