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Traitor or Aiding the Enemy?

Jeff

Cyburbian
Messages
4,161
Points
27
Apparently the peaceniks are now flying to Irag to strap themselves to potential targets like Saddam's make-believe hospitals and day-care centers. I just heard Saddam wants them to position themselves at power plants also in a hope that we won't light up our own citizens.

To me, if you do that you are aiding the enemy and are therefore a traitor. Anyone else have some opinions on this?
 
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If you oppose the war, I don't necessarily think you're a traitor. But I do think these people are insane.
 
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Opposing the war does not make you a traitor, however, when we do go to war, these wackos are offering themselves up as human shields for the enemy, and i would have to agree with mike, their aiding the opposing side, making them traitors.
 

Repo Man

Cyburbian
Messages
2,550
Points
25
Opposing the war is one thing, volunteering to use yourself as a human shield is is just plan stupid. I say the US should issue one warning to these morons, then blow up whatever they need too...whether American citizens are strapped to them or not. My guess is that would be the last time anybody tries that tactic to protest war.
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,984
Points
29
Being against the war is your RIGHT. I respect that.

Aiding the enemy is not your right. Thusly, I would encourage anyone here who is against America, in addition to being against the war to fly to Iraq and ask for the nearest communications node or AAA radar site. Also being chained to the barracks of the Republican guard will also help prevent war.

I don't have much money, but if you need some help purchasing an airplane ticket, and you promise to stay chained to the target until the war is over, I'm sure a few of us old vets could come up with the cash to get you there.

Maybe we could run charter flights from Berekely direct to Iraq.

Good luck
 

kms

Cyburbian
Messages
5,915
Points
31
Personally, I don't think that they should be allowed back into the US. Let them live with what they are defending, but they wouldn't be treated well in Iraq.
 

PlannerGirl

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
6,377
Points
29
well im pretty darn anti war but i agree these people are not only nuts but should not be able to come home-in my mind you defected end of story.
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,080
Points
34
I think the whole human shield thing is just stupid. If a bullet will cut through human flesh, what do you think a 2000 lb, laser-guided bomb is going to do? The only halfway decent shield is a missile defense system.
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,624
Points
34
If you want to protest, fine. Waive a daisy and sing kumbaya. Just don't act like a freaking martyr when the daisy cutter ripps you to shreads.

I firmly beleive that the military should ignore their presence and act if the target is legitimate depiste them.
 

RedsFan

BANNED
Messages
9
Points
0
Let's Roll

Let's start this sucker already!! This buildup has got everything on hold. Get in, get out, get on with life post Saddam. The human shields are not helping anybody.
 

Jeff

Cyburbian
Messages
4,161
Points
27
Oh I truly believe that these idiots are going to be lit up if they are strapped to one of our targets.

Its one thing to chain yourself to a tree you love so it doesn't get bulldozed, its another to think we aren't willing to sacrifice your a$$ to knock out a military target.

I also, don't think these freaks should be let back in the country. If they come back, throw them in prison with little misguided John Walker Lindh and have the boys in prison light them up like the they did to Johnny on Monday.
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,624
Points
34
Mike D. said:
I also, don't think these freaks should be let back in the country. If they come back, throw them in prison with little misguided John Walker Lindh and have the boys in prison light them up like the they did to Johnny on Monday.
Did I miss something, did he get raped? I'll buy that video of $5.

Wait. That sounds wrong...
 

Jen

Cyburbian
Messages
1,704
Points
25
IMHO it is a noble symbolism on part of the foks offering themselves to protect the innocents. I see it as more of a humanitarian gesture to the foks who live in Iraq, They are not there to protecty al queida, im sorry but the terrorists have fled that country. They're probably on they're way to indonesia.

What exactly is it the target here anyway. missiles on the move?

the WTC was taken down by great balls of hatred announced by a box cutter. and now 18 months later its build up the guns build up the guns, for one big nasty premature ejaculate... Is that how we are gonna answer every discovery of unapproved weapons? Well take it down that path and see the real need for missile defense. So stupid.
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,984
Points
29
Originally posted by Jen
IMHO it is a noble symbolism on part of the folks offering themselves to protect the innocents. I see it as more of a humanitarian gesture to the folks who live in Iraq,
Kind of like chaining yourself to the gates of Dachau to keep the innocent people of Germany from being harmed by the Allies.
Jen said:
They are not there to protecty al queida, im sorry but the terrorists have fled that country. They're probably on they're way to indonesia.
I'm glad you know for sure the terrorists have fled Iraq. You must work for the CIA to have that kind of factuality in your post.
Jen said:
What exactly is it the target here anyway. missiles on the move?
The offices and infrastructure of a evil dictator who is a threat to the world.

Jen said:
the WTC was taken down by great balls of hatred announced by a box cutter. and now 18 months later its build up the guns build up the guns, for one big nasty premature ejaculate... Is that how we are gonna answer every discovery of unapproved weapons? Well take it down that path and see the real need for missile defense. So stupid.
That makes me understand your point so much better the way you tied real questions of national objectives in with childish sexual analogies.

Let me guess, you don't actually know anyone who may die in this conflict or anyone who has ever lived under a tyrant?
 

Tom R

Cyburbian
Messages
2,274
Points
25
Shields

Well, going to Iraq as a human shield is probably aiding and abetting the enemy IF we were at war. Unless I'm not up on current events, war hasn't technically been declared yet. When and if it does come to this, the WMD inspectors, journalists and those naieve enough to think that they can stop the bombing by putting themselves in harms war should be given adequate notice to get their collective asses out of there. After that what happens is their own stupid fault. This isn't like Desert Storm when Sadam took unwilling hostages as shields.

These "peaceniks" are helping only Sadam and his regime. If they choose to stay and are fortunate enough to live through it all, I agree they should be in the cell with John Lindh.

If you don't think so, just read about the POWs during Viet Nam and the effect Hanoi Jane Fonda's visit there had on the length of their internment. I respect the war protestors who used civil disobediance at home. Although they were "used" by Hanoi in its propaganda war, for the most part they were right in their opposition to the war.

But I am really concerned that we are going to get them caught in a wringer in Iraq and a lot of men and women are going to be wounded or die and not one domn positive thing is going to result.
 

Jeff

Cyburbian
Messages
4,161
Points
27
Jen said:
IMHO it is a noble symbolism on part of the foks offering themselves to protect the innocents.
What's noble is the folks who have given up their lives, families, and careers to defend the innocent citizens of this country.

What exactly is it the target here anyway. missiles on the move?
And everything else in the country

the WTC was taken down by great balls of hatred announced by a box cutter. and now 18 months later its build up the guns build up the guns,
Actually the guns have been there. Did you forget that we already leveled Afghanistan? Iraq is just the closest country on the map to hit next. No sense passing Iraq to get to Korea you know.

Is that how we are gonna answer every discovery of unapproved weapons?
Mod Edit (NHPlanner): Personal attack deleted.
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,624
Points
34
El Guapo - at least put little smilies on your posts. That was harsh.
 

NHPlanner

Forums Administrator & Gallery Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
9,890
Points
38
bturk said:
El Guapo - at least put little smilies on your posts. That was harsh.
Wow...things are getting a bit heated in this thread, aren't they?

I'm going to continue to be a silent fencesitter on this issue, and continue to pray that my brother in law in Kuwait does not have to see any real action while he's there.
 

PlannerGirl

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
6,377
Points
29
Ok folks lets take a breather

Mike that was pushing flaming

why dont we all take a few to cool off and think-we are mature adults and free to express ourselves but lets not resort to...well less than i think we would like to see expressed here

we are friends lets stay that way
 

Jen

Cyburbian
Messages
1,704
Points
25
just my opinion about the topic guap, there are no cites regarding national objectives or concentration camps. The human shields are ready to die, blow em away if they're in front of a target, why should you care? Save your hatred for the iraqi soldiers i guess.
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
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5,984
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29
Sorry Brian - Life is harsh. This is a harsh subject. My reply was measured and appropriate and dealt with her post directly.

No soup for Jen. Next
 

Jen

Cyburbian
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1,704
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25
Mod Edit (NHPlanner): Post deleted for Personal Attacks
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,984
Points
29
Jen said:
Save your hatred for the iraqi soldiers i guess.
I don't hate the Iraqi soldiers - They are just as screwed by Saddam as the Americans that will have to fight them. I don't hate anyone that I know of. I do however hate people that oppress others and use their power to terrorize. And I am passionate about my beliefs. To bad.

Brian - This is a debate about a real life-or-death subject. Closing the thread is wrong.
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,624
Points
34
El Guapo said:
Brian - This is a debate about a real life-or-death subject. Closing the thread is wrong.
But closing Budgie's Segway thread was right just because we were bored with it?

I think you folks have valid opinions but you and Mike are getting to the point of line crossing IMHO. Play nice.
 

NHPlanner

Forums Administrator & Gallery Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
9,890
Points
38
I agree the thread should stay open. No need for pushing the replies to the point of flaming, however. I've edited the offending posts, and I'm sure that the rest of the mods and I will keep an eye out for further unpleasantries.

Lets keep the debate civil.
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,984
Points
29
No
Show me where I crossed the line. I am not Mike - he can fight his own battles. Show me where I crossed the line NOW!~
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,080
Points
34
I don't want to see the thread closed either, however, some of the comments are a bit personal. Many of us (me included) have friends and family who are directly involved in the potential conflict. Others have a deeply held concern that countless thousands of innocent people will be killed in our country's name (me too). It is hard not to be passionate under these circumstances, but I hope we can respect the others' opinions and keep things civil.
 

NHPlanner

Forums Administrator & Gallery Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
9,890
Points
38
El Guapo said:
No
Show me where I crossed the line. I am not Mike - he can fight his own battles. Show me where I crossed the line NOW!~
I don't think you have crossed the line yet...close....but not to the point of making it a personal attack. I've edited those posts I thought were offending in nature.

I have nothing to say about your passion for the issue, it's obvious, and you have every right to express it. I think that all debates on this website have been civil and friendly....lets keep it that way!
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,984
Points
29
What did you remove from my post and exactly where have I expressed forbidden thought?
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,984
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29
You know I don't think I want to play in a sandbox where my thoughts are edited to make someone feel more comfortable about theirs. Goodbye!
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,624
Points
34
El Guapo said:
No
Show me where I crossed the line. I am not Mike - he can fight his own battles. Show me where I crossed the line NOW!~
Didnt say that my friend, I said getting close. And its a thought repeated by other mods, so lets all step off ok?

EDIT: I realize that tone and inflection are often lost in this medium, and it can be troublesome. This thread is a good example.
 

NHPlanner

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Staff member
Moderator
Messages
9,890
Points
38
El Guapo said:
You know I don't think I want to play in a sandbox where my thoughts are edited to make someone feel more comfortable about theirs. Goodbye!
I did not edit any of your posts....just the comment that Mike made directly to Jen. As I said, I don't believe you have crossed any lines.
 

Tom R

Cyburbian
Messages
2,274
Points
25
bye

El Guapo said:
You know I don't think I want to play in a sandbox where my thoughts are edited to make someone feel more comfortable about theirs. Goodbye!
Bye! Write if you get a chance.
 

Mastiff

Gunfighter
Messages
7,181
Points
30
Easy Objectives...

1) Depose Saddam.

2) Remove all weapons Iraq has for an offensive war.

3) Kill anyone who gets in the way.

Seems pretty simple to me... Human shield falls under #3. If they are a U.S citizen, and stayed during wartime and managed to survive, don't bother coming back.
 

Jen

Cyburbian
Messages
1,704
Points
25
Hey ya'll you know I only wander into the kitchen to feel the heat sometimes and really there was no need to edit el guapo's and mike's post. Yeah it seared a little but look no blisters!

I like the freedom to post and read popula/unpopular views if it gets a little personal, then I guess the offended party should take it to email or private message.
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,624
Points
34
Fair enough Jen. I can admit to being overly sensitive sometimes, and Jen, EG, Mike I apologize if .... [glurg] ...I was the one that crossed the line..... even if El Guapo
was wrong. ;)
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,080
Points
34
"Abdul Hashimi, the head of the Friendship, Peace and Solidarity organisation that is hosting the protesters, told the shields to choose between nine so-called "strategic sites" by today or quit the country."


Let me express my surprise, and compliment the Iraqis who are telling these melon-heads to leave.


"It heightened fears among some peace activists that they could be stationed at non-civilian sites. Mr Meynell and fellow protesters who moved into the power station in south Baghdad last weekend were dismayed to find it stood immediately next to an army base and the strategically crucial main road south to Basra. Iraqi officials said there was little point in guarding what they considered to be low-risk targets."


They seem to be acknowledging that it is not our policy to strike non-military targets. Let's all remember this when the bombs start to fly and the Iraqi regime and its sympathizers start making claims of US attacks on civilians.

Another thought - has anyone issued these human shields gas masks or given them innoculations? Wouldn't it be ironic if they died, not from US bombs, but from the chemical and biological agents Iraq "doesn't have."
 

Jeff

Cyburbian
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4,161
Points
27
Hey I was being nice too. I should've used a smilie...my bad! ;)
 

Tom R

Cyburbian
Messages
2,274
Points
25
location

Mike D. said:
Hey I was being nice too. I should've used a smilie...my bad! ;)
I haven't heard "America Love It or Leave It" in a loooooong time. It doesn't make sence. If a country that is based on basic freedoms, speech being one of them, can't take some criticism then things have gone very wrong. I think it was Tom Paine who said "I disagree with what you say but I will defend with my life your right to say it." If people cannot accept contrary opinions, perhaps they would be happier where dissent is not tolerated, such as Iraq, Saudi Arabia China etc. There are pleanty to choose from.

Better off accepting and trying to understand other opinions, with the exception of rhetoric that incites violence.

And remember everyone is an a**h*** in their own special way.
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,624
Points
34
Re: location

Tom R said:
And remember everyone is an a**h*** in their own special way.
I'll have to use that one in a staff report sometime.
 

Dan

Dear Leader
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
17,846
Points
59
I've been staying out of this.



As the other mods said, let's keep it civil. Yes, you can vent, you can let your writing reflect your anger, but let's refrain from personal attacks.
 

Jen

Cyburbian
Messages
1,704
Points
25
Now if some of those human shields would volunteer for US soldiers at the same time, well then that would be a noble gesture indeed,

who mentioned it here before, news correspondants up first?
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,080
Points
34
Jen said:
Now if some of those human shields would volunteer for US soldiers at the same time, well then that would be a noble gesture indeed
Now there's a great idea!
 

SkeLeton

Cyburbian
Messages
4,853
Points
26
I've given my opinions back in other threads about the Human shields... they're dumb.

now on a possible war, i'd sugest multilateralism, do something like what happened here in the early 1800s.. an independence raid started by Bolivar starting a war agaist the countries (back then, colonies) of the tyranic spanish empire.
It'll be something like a Liberation army... liberating countries from oppresion from tyranical dictators like Saddam, Kim Jong-il, Fidel Castro, etc....

On a recent news report I learned quite lovely details of Saddam, like that he is quite fond of experimenting chemical and biological weapons on his own people... He also is a fan of Stalin, well he looks quite like him, and ACTS like him too!
So what are we waitin' for?
Just go there kick Saddam's ass, get out and let the UN take control from there on (let's hope this conflict doesn't tear apart the UN) quite simple.... I'd even believe dummy-proof, but I've seen quite a lot of protesting... Mabye it's because of Carlo Cipolla's First Law of Stupidity: "We always underestimate the number of stupid people that there are" :D
 
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