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Unpopular or unorthodox beliefs you hold

Dan

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Do you hold any unpopular or unorthodox views? I mean, REALLY unpopular or unorthodox. Among the many I hold are the following:

1) Eugenics: those with severe physical or mental handicaps should not be allowed to reproduce.

2) Equality has been achieved: the US federal government should perform a study, and after the appropriate findings, issue an edict stating that there are no longer any rules, regulations or laws that are in any way discriminatory against minorities; the government did everything it could do to end racism. If someone feels that The Man is holding them back, that man, at least, isn't a federal, state or local government agency.
 

Chet

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I beleive that the War on Terror is really a War on Islam, but The Feds won't admit it for fear of the repercussions.
 

Mastiff

Gunfighter
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I agree with both of those.

Here's my real kicker:

Women and men are inherantly different - Sure, you might laugh and say "no kidding", but when it comes to some roles in society, we often put the square peg in the round hole. (No double entendre intended.) I've seen fire and police departments hire female canidates over male canidates to make sure they meet a real or perceived quota.

Can women handle being a firefighter? Sure... I know women who can kick your *** and take your lunch money. But, I would expect them to take the EXACT same exam, and pass the EXACT same physical qualifications... and be better than the next canidate regardless of gender. I won't speak on the military issue since I haven't served myself, but I have good friends who certainly would.

I know this view might not be popular with alot of women, but if you were trapped in a burning building, would you like to have someone come to your rescue that could drag you out?
 

PlannerGirl

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I think men and women are NOT the same, i have the same brains but as you say Mastiff the physical is not the same.

I dont want something based on some quota i want to earn it myself, i got the brains, the brass...things etc to get what i want out of life but i still demand to be treated like a lady. Just as id treat a man like a gentleman.

I think everyone is born who they are, sexuality, gender, gender identification etc are not made but born and that there are 7 different genders *by chromosomes*

Many American products are not up to par with imports-some of our workers have gotten very lazy and unions seem to have too much power in some areas (i dont get the dock workers mess)

The average person does not seem to have the ability to grasph their voting rights or how they can change the world around them. Idiots with out the ability to think for themselves make me question voting rights-but then im conflicted on that. idiots should not be able to vote but then who decides whos the idiots?

Im sure there are more give me time
 

Repo Man

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2,550
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Women on welfare should be required to take birth control. I would argue the same for men but there is no "pill" or "patch" for men...if one is invented, it should also be required. You can hand out all the condoms you want, there is no guarantee that they will use them. I would say that vasectomys would be appropriate, but they are difficult to reverse.

I believe that we should stop any and all anti-smoking campaigns in the US. EVERYBODY knows that smoking is bad for you, yet every state, the federal govenment, and local governments spend millions of dollars sending out anti-smoking messages that people do not listen to. Teaching kids the dangers of smoking is the responsibility of the parents, not the government. If you have health issues related to your smoking, your insurance company should not have to pay a dime for any smoking-related health costs.

I think the war on drugs is a waste of time and money. I support government sponsored/supported treatment programs, but anti-drug programs like DARE do nothing to stop kids from taking drugs, yet millions are spent on them every year. Drug education is also the responsibility of the parents, not the government.
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
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There are some interesting opinions here. I'll weigh in in the wo/man thing first. We are absolutely different, both physically and mentally. Men and women think differently. Both are different, so enjoy the differences and stop trying to make everyone the same!

Physically, let me add a comment on the military. Everyone has to take and pass a physical fitness test. But the women have to do far less then the men. Assume that the reason the military promotes physical fitness is that it wants assurances that its personnel can perform the physical labor associated with a job, and so that they can fight. Should we just hope that our female fighting men will only be matched up against the other side's women? Not likely. I would advocate for a single test standard (no alternate scores based on gender or age) and classify military jobs according to how high a physical fitness test score you need.

Now for my own addition to the list. I am not that fond of democracy. Too many idiots get to vote, and the only thing worse than them are the people they elect. Still, a benevolent dictatorship being unlikely, I am not willing to give democracy up, unless I am the dictator.
 

NHPlanner

Forums Administrator & Gallery Moderator
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Staying out of the political....

I don't consider golf, bowling, or auto racing to be sports.
 

mugbub

BANNED
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67
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4
Not a flame

Most comprehensive urban planners are unnecessary. Comprehensive planning doesn't require a specialized degree.

I think most of us on this forum would be better named "urban (or rural) land use admistrators" instead of "planners."
 

Mastiff

Gunfighter
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7,181
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30
Michael Stumpf said:
Now for my own addition to the list. I am not that fond of democracy. Too many idiots get to vote, and the only thing worse than them are the people they elect. Still, a benevolent dictatorship being unlikely, I am not willing to give democracy up, unless I am the dictator.
Perhaps a "vote test"? It doesn't have to be much... But if you have no clue on an issue, how can you cast a reasonable vote? The same with canidates... if you can't identify their stand on particular issues, you cannot cast a vote for them.

Hey, I'm for it.
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
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more on the military

Women should be given combat roles if they are going to be in the military. Nothing pisses me off more than having tax dollars fund women at Top Gun - for what? So it looks good?
 

gkmo62u

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Great Thread Dan:

1. Mandatory Driving reexaminations/tests for those over 65, perhaps every two years after that.

2. Legalize Marijuana, then tax the *&%# out of it.

3. Ban all legalized descrimination (affirmative action).

4. What's wrong with a war on Islam?

5. Planners should be requuired to memorize the 5th amendment and abide by the founders original intent.

6. Death Penalty for parking Violations (Steve Martin: Let's Get Small).

Oh and Planderella, the Elvis and Beatles thing...that's funny.
 
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Chet

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Allow more imigrants, or for that matter anyone that wants to come, into the country. It's what america was founded on, will initially keep wages low due to increased competition for jobs, and will give us the masses of armed militia we'll need when the Red Menace comes a knockin'.
 

Jeff

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Damn everyone stole my thunder before I got a chance to post...anyway here goes:

Death penalty for those guilty of driving slow in the left lane.

Tubal ligation for any woman who wants welfare.

Pop quiz at the voting machines.

Driver retest.

School vouchers

Holiday on Veteran's Day only for Veterans...or at least all veterans plus everyone else that already gets a day off because we sacrificed 4+ years of our lives in service to our Country.

Mandatory military service for every able-bodied male

Free college tuition (we give everything else out)

State #51 = The Middle East
 

PlannerGirl

Cyburbian Plus
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religious groups should not be permitted to give money to political parties or candidates
to be able to tell the religious radical right to go to hell with out them saying its "discrimination"
for folks to realize its freedom OF religion and not freedom FROM or FOR

election day should be a holiday or some such to get folks to vote-public transport free to polling places

if you don't vote you have to keep your trap shut

Take the drug control money and put it into voting reform and education-teach kids how to vote and get them excited at a young age.
 

Jen

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Well one of the main reasons I have come to like message boards is that I can agree with an upopular belief and not get beat up.

Though I know this, That absolutely a woman can be an excellent leader of both men and women.

And I voted today, but why am I voting for University reagents and trustees? who are these people and why are my taxes supporting their offices?

I voted for Michigan's constitutional amendment proposal that would change how tobacco settlement monies are distributed. Give the money back to hospitals and clinics that are treating people for smoking diseases- It won't pass I'm sure.anyway

Right now a lot of the money is given away as MEAP scholoarships. Which I am not against a little seed money for enticing HS grads to higher learning. But BAH! The universities are so rich, it seems to me they could scale back their ivory towers some.
 

Habanero

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jtfortin said:
Women on welfare should be required to take birth control. I would argue the same for men but there is no "pill" or "patch" for men...if one is invented, it should also be required. You can hand out all the condoms you want, there is no guarantee that they will use them. I would say that vasectomys would be appropriate, but they are difficult to reverse.
I could not agree with you more. I've always thought that, you get your check, you bend over and get your depo shot. I do not have children because I make sure I take the precautions, I shouldn't have to pay for other people to have children. When you can fend for two, without government assistance, then you can have the baby.

I also agree with Dan:
1) Eugenics: those with severe physical or mental handicaps should not be allowed to reproduce.

I also think that there are some idiots that should be seen and not heard. The media should be round up and shot- I don't think protecting some druggie pop star's death record is more important than letting the public know exactly what we're planning to do. Could we give it away a little more?

Some people shouldn't be allowed to wear shoes, just the stupid people. No shoes, no service. I'd like to be able to pick them out before they walk up to me.

I'm a woman, not disabled, don't treat me like I'm second class. I'm one of the ones that could kick you ***, take your lunch money. :)
 

Tranplanner

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1) Handouts to homeless/street people only encourage them to remain on the streets.

2) Those convicted of criminal offences should have most of their civil (not human) rights suspended - no voting, no TV, etc.
 

statler

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Unorthodox Beliefs

I believe the Bengals are going to win the Super Bowl this year! (Is that unorthodox enough?)
 

El Feo

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I agree - interesting thread, Dan.

Voting/our democracy - I think the system does a pretty darn good job. The vote/no vote decision is fairly successfully self selecting, IMHO. The lazy and the stupid don't vote, more often than not. All that being said, my unorthodox belief is that all bitching aside, our system is working pretty well.

Some others that you guys have made me think of:

1. If women want to serve in combat roles, then all females should have to register for selective service, just like I did.

2. Planderella, thank God it's not just me on the Beatles thing. I kind of like some Elvis, though, if only for the cheesiness.

3. I'm down with legalizing marijuana. Mainly it's so our farmers can grow the stuff for its many industrial and textile uses without gettin' hassled by the man, though. No. Seriously.
 

Chet

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The USA has to stop giving so much foreign aid, especially to countrys which do not support our imperialistic aspirations. The Philipines? C'mon, with all the $ we throw at them they should be a STATE. Same with Guam and Puerto Rico - join us as states or stop suckling at our financial t*t.
 

Terraplan

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Michael Stumpf said:
I am not that fond of democracy. Too many idiots get to vote, and the only thing worse than them are the people they elect. Still, a benevolent dictatorship being unlikely, I am not willing to give democracy up, unless I am the dictator.
I'm all for the benevolent dictorship - but sorry mikey, that positions all filled by me already... I also believe that the practice of anexing other countries should be reintroduced. Hey, if you are to slapgat to protect your country the jokes on you.

Secondly, I believe that public/community participation has just gone too far. Much like voting you should have to past a test to participate in public particpation. Responding to comments telling me that a new hospital with metropolitan as well as local benefit should not be permitted because of dust during construction is just not a valuable use of five years of study.
 

gkmo62u

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Eric: Elvis only became chessy in the late 70's when he went Vegas and was eating those fried peanut butter and egg sandwiches.

here is one more: I think we should drastically halt immigration today, here's an idea for us planners--how about an immigration moratorium until we can develop sound policy. We kill two birds with one stone: stop sprawl and stop terrorists.
 

donk

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I agree about public participation having gone too far. How do you like going to meetings to discuss ideas and getting bitched out because the map shows property lines that may or may not be off by 10-15 feet., and we are talking about a map that shows 3000 parcels of land at a scale of 1:50 000.


The other belief I have that gets me in trouble all of the time is that I have to treat people with respect and be polite to them, regardless of how they treat me. I'll only take so much for so long then all bets are off. Specifically, being cursed at. The number of people I have hung up on or asked to leave is pretty long.
 

nerudite

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Wow... a lot of good opinions...

I must have not been paying attention when this thread came around, because I'm jumping on the bandwagon pretty late in the game here. I pretty much agree with a lot of these, but I tend to flip-flop.

Minority Quotas -- I got the short end of the stick on this one when I applied for undergrad acceptance to UCLA and didn't get in with my 4.1 GPA. My classmate with a 2.9 did (quota, for sure). I have been bitter about this for 15 years, so I know it clouds my judgement.

Genetics -- As PG said: "I think everyone is born who they are, sexuality, gender, gender identification etc are not made but born and that there are 7 different genders *by chromosomes*." I second this!

Voting -- I like someone's idea here about a test for voting. I think people should know enough about our government to understand who they are voting into office and why. If I don't know about an proposition or a political office, I simply don't vote on that issue. I don't think I've ever voted on a County School Superintendent, mostly because I didn't have the time to really review the candidates with so many other ballot measures to keep up on.

While I'm on the subject of voting... I'm not keen on the electoral college. I think it's time is up. There have been numerous times where an electoral vote was either used for a different candidate in the same election or for a write-in candidate, as well as the numerous times candidates have won the popular vote but not the electoral vote. I say give everyone the same opportunity to have their vote mean something.
 

Chet

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Re: Wow... a lot of good opinions...

nerudite said:
Genetics -- As PG said: "I think everyone is born who they are, sexuality, gender, gender identification etc are not made but born and that there are 7 different genders *by chromosomes*." I second this!
Umm, slightly OT, and not being up on my genetics, what are the seven?
 

El Feo

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nerudite said:
While I'm on the subject of voting... I'm not keen on the electoral college. I think it's time is up. There have been numerous times where an electoral vote was either used for a different candidate in the same election or for a write-in candidate, as well as the numerous times candidates have won the popular vote but not the electoral vote. I say give everyone the same opportunity to have their vote mean something.
Have to disagree with you on that one, Nerudite. I'll go to war to keep the Electoral College. It prevents sectional candidates from winning - plain and simple. I bet everybody would appreciate it more if, say, in 2004 David Duke won every eligible vote in the South, and a scant 5% everywhere else, but was still President by virtue of winning the "popular vote."

I guess another unorthodox view I hold is that it's GOOD we don't live in a pure democracy.

PlannerGirl said:
xx, xy, yy, y, x, xyx, yxy

i THINK thats it but checking now...more info to come

D
;)

Are "x" and "y" just six foot, bipedal sperms? I can' say I've ever seen one of those walking down the street. I'm curious to see pictures, though!
 
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nerudite

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bturk said:


Umm, slightly OT, and not being up on my genetics, what are the seven?
Let's see... I don't know if I can remember them all: feminine, masculine, androgynous, transsexual, cross-dresser, eunuchs, etc. I can find the doctor that coined the terms. I don't remember the actual chromosome make-up.

I guess what I was trying to say (and maybe PlannerGirl won't agree here), is that it isn't just male/female any more... there are so many variables and that they are genetic. I'm sick of people saying that someone "chooses" to be _______ (gay, straight, etc.)... when in my opinion it's something you are born with.

El Feo said:


Have to disagree with you on that one, Nerudite. I'll go to war to keep the Electoral College. It prevents sectional candidates from winning - plain and simple. I bet everybody would appreciate it more if, say, in 2004 David Duke won every eligible vote in the South, and a scant 5% everywhere else, but was still President by virtue of winning the "popular vote."

I guess another unorthodox view I hold is that it's GOOD we don't live in a pure democracy.
Yeah, it's one of my more unpopular opinions.

Up here in Canada where there is no death penalty, I think that my support of that issue is a big no-no too. Not that I was ever popular in that regard with my fellow democrats.
 
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PlannerGirl

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The extra or missing X and Y tend to lead to problems, downs syndrome etc. Its actually such an issue that there are papers out there asking the Olympics to change their genetic testing for events because some of the women have male markers though they are women.

the boy and girl box just don't fit to many anymore-I went to school with a few Transsexuals and one hermaphrodite (did I spell that right?) they were always lamenting their problems.
 

Habanero

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Mastiff said:


Promises... promises...
Well, I'm not sure if I'd take your lunch money- you helped me scare the pee out of my neighbor. : )

I thought of another one, but may not be too unorthodox- ban HOAs, they give me headaches and don't really do much but not let us hang the American flag outside of our home..
 
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Re: Unorthodox Beliefs

statler said:
I believe the Bengals are going to win the Super Bowl this year! (Is that unorthodox enough?)
Whoa! Pass some of what you're smoking this way!

My unorthodox belief? I hate watching any and all sports on TV, except soccer. The last sporting event I watched from start to finish on the tube was the final Women's World Cup match against China.

Oh, and I watched the Ball State "miracle at Maui" game against Duke.
 

Chet

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SW MI Planner said:
I believe that Michael and Latoya Jackson are one and the same person.
OMG, I've been saying that for years!!!!!!! LOLOL
 

SW MI Planner

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OMG, I've been saying that for years!!!!!!! LOLOL
See, I am not as halfbaked as me thinks!! (I tried doing the quote thing...have to see if it works)

On a serious note, and only because I can ((hopefully)) say this without getting flamed, I have a BIG problem with immigration. My great-great grandfather and mother came here from Germany in 1881. So yah, they immigrated. BUT they struggled to get the heck out of Germany, and worked their arses off to survive once they got here. He farmed a lot of land, starting out with very very little and over time accumulated a lot of land. He also became very politically involved. He didn't intend to come here being a German living in America. Dammit (can I say that?), they learned english, and actually *became* Americans.

Maybe its not so much immigration I have a problem with, but the yahoos that come to this country and take advantage of it. Won't learn to speak the language, won't learn to drive, won't learn to respect those that are proud to be here.

Maybe it should be illegal to speak anything but English. Maybe, like on Ellis Island, they should have tests before letting people land on our shores. Can't speak English...sorry, back on the boat.
 

BKM

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Interesting range of opinions. I am ashamed to admit my tolerance for most forms of dogmatic religion is very limited. "What's wrong with a War on Islam" is sadly my opinion, too. Fundamental incompatibility here with modern Western liberal values..

A REALLY BAD OPINION: I think that when Karl Marx was warning about the "Opiate of the People" he was really talking about professional sports. I HATE Pro Sports. I would never vote for a stadium, I have no interest at all in the doings of the drugged-up Uberfrankensteins of the moment. I mean, is some guy playing a kid's game really WORTH millions per year? (I know he/she are subjecting their bodies to damage, etc. etc., but still)

SW Michigan: Don't know about where you live, but out here in the west, if you've got hard physical labor to be done, it ain't the All American Salt of the Earth doing it. Its the immigrant labor. There aren't THAT many abandoning their native villages for the lush life of the welfare dependent American ghettos, anecdotal evidence aside. If you want to talk about carrying capacity (running out of water, air pollution, sprawl consuming farmland), that's another matter. I don't buy the lazy immigrant scenario.

And, I might point out. Drive around Chicago or many of the immigrant-dominated cities of the late 19th/early 20th century. Horrors! Look at all that Polish writing! What are those newspapers in Polish and Ukranian doing here? This is AMERICA!

(Note: I think bilingual education was a flop for everyone but the bilingual experts themselves. Still, you are fooling yourself if you think that early immigrants didn't preserve their language for the first generation or two)
 
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The Roman Catholic Church/Vatican needs to wake up and get with the times. Their doctrine is incredibly outdated - I'm willing to bet that 90-95% of today's Catholics have broken SEVERAL of those doctrines and are going straight to hell (by Vatican standards) because of it. I'm incredibly pissed that the Vatican refuses to believe and/or acknowledge the fact that some of their beloved men of the cloth are capable of sexually molesting their parishioners (especially the children).
 

Zoning Goddess

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To build on what jtfortin and TexasPlanner said : southern white trash should never be permitted to reproduce.

Anyone caught driving 10 miles or more below the speed limit should be dragged from their car and shot. (I live in a state with an above-average number of "polygrips" who don't have a clue about actual driving).
 

Cardinal

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PlannerGirl said:
I went to school with a few Transsexuals and one hermaphrodite (did I spell that right?) they were always lamenting on their problems.
Do you mean that cats were dying?

(Sorry, I had to revive the dead cat theme. It hasn't shown up in a while.)
 

Mastiff

Gunfighter
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Planderella said:
The Roman Catholic Church/Vatican needs to wake up and get with the times. Their doctrine is incredibly outdated - I'm willing to bet that 90-95% of today's Catholics have broken SEVERAL of those doctrines and are going straight to hell (by Vatican standards) because of it. I'm incredibly pissed that the Vatican refuses to believe and/or acknowledge the fact that some of their beloved men of the cloth are capable of sexually molesting their parishioners (especially the children).
Do you like the movie "Dogma"?
 

SW MI Planner

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BKM....Easy tiger!

Reread my post - I never once said immigrants were lazy. On the same token, I refuse to believe that all immigrants work their asses off. There is a difference between those that come to this country for the hell of it and those that come here to work.

Maybe its not so much immigration I have a problem with, but the yahoos that come to this country and take advantage of it. Won't learn to speak the language, won't learn to drive, won't learn to respect those that are proud to be here.
Like I already said, it's not so much the whole immigration issue, but the fact that there are those people that don't appreciate the ability to be here, and they take advantage of it. It's the jackasses that drive around in the high dollar SUV's, acting like their crap don't stink, being rude to everyone around them, and act like we owe them something. They get pissed because we don't understand what the heck they are saying. I think it takes big cahones and is extremely disrespectful to move to some country and not attempt to learn their language. When you are in another country, YOU (not *you* but you know what I mean) need to adapt, not make them adapt to you. I feel strongly about this...if your going to be here, learn to speak our language.
 

BKM

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OK, SW Mich. Maybe I misread your post (I do tend to do that an awful lot ).

I don't have that much patience, either, with those who make no effort to learn a host country's language. I'm not sure that this is that common a problem, though. And, most SUV drivers are all American Yuppies, at least out herre. Not sure how you link immigrants and bad driving skills in politically incorrect vehicles (A major pet peeve of mine as well. Can I add "Hate SUVs" to the list of unpopular opinions?)

The point of my second post was that first and to a lesser extent second generation of immigrant households tend to retain language and culture-for obvious reasons. By the third generation, the kids are pretty much American-for good and bad (lazy kids listening to degenerate rap music and "dissing" the elders :) )

As for Mexican American culture, my point above still holds-but in the southwest/west, the infusion is so large and the source country so close that the host culture is changing. There will be a steady regional evolution towards a new culture. As any anthropologist would tell you, borders and cultures are never static. Demographics means change will come.

That is reality, and I'm not sure its all bad. Pat Buchanan is wrong and his rants are futile. The cultural ferment is why I much prefer California to the culture where I grew up (Fort Wayne, Indiana) I mean, come on. Which would you prefer-macaroni salad and hamburgers or carne asada and good Thai food? I know my answer, despite the problems and dislocations.

Gosh, this thread is way too serious.
 

SW MI Planner

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Fort Wayne, Indiana???? I am a mere 45 minute drive north on I-69. (For all of those not from this area, that is so not a sexual comment, position, etc.)

I probably shouldn't admit that...your probably thinking to yourself "What the hell is this girl talking about as she lives in a small hick town where half the people still wear banana clips and peg their pants - she doesn't know what the heck she's talking about". I actually have only been here a short time - before that I lived in southeast Michigan for ten years, before that was Saginaw Michigan (born and raised baby!).

I honestly try really hard to not make generalizations. My friends make fun at me because I am the most PC person ever. It was hard to try to explain what I was thinking without it coming out all wrong. When it comes right down to it, I have a big problem with anyone that drives high dollar vehicles, is rude, arrogant, and disrespectful...regardless of ethnicity. ((The language thing does piss me off though))

Which would you prefer-macaroni salad and hamburgers carne asada and good Thai food
That should be the next poll :)
Honestly... I'd rather have the macaroni salad and hamburgers. I am a meat and potato girl!! Actually, just really really picky and don't like much of anything.
 

Journeymouse

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443
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13
  1. There is no such thing as equality. Everyone is different. There should be equity (i.e. getting paid for what you do) and equal opportunities (so you can get into a job/career you can and want to do).
  2. And the point of taking powers away from the House of Lords was? The majority of the lords care about their duties and despite being connected with the ideals of particular political parties made pretty good watchdogs on the whole.
  3. Ireland belongs to the Irish, dammit. If the Unionists are so determined to be 'English', maybe they should move over this side of the Irish Sea. And this round isn't 'our' fault, 'we' were invited.
  4. It's time the UK caught up with the rest of the EU and started using the Euro and driving on the right.
  5. Business should work on a longer timescale, say twenty years rather than three or five. The engineering disciplines would give some amazing solutions to the sustainable development problems if given the opportunity.
  6. Anyone who insists that their factory doesn't emit any pollutants simply because they comply with the law should be given the opportunity to breathe the 'air' coming out of the stack. Yes, it's cleaner than previously, but it isn't as pure as the driven, y'know.
  7. Anne Robinson deserves to be deeply humiliated in public. Preferably someone who can think of much better remarks much faster. Her 'one liners' aren't especially good, she just gets there faster than everyone else. And anyone who even jokes that a nation should be got rid of just 'cause they speak another language is a complete idiot.
    [/list=1]
 
Messages
3,690
Points
27
crap! i can't believe that i missed all this just by having election day off! ok, here's my big, unorthodox belief:

Along with flouride, there should be birth control provided in the public water supply to everyone. In order to procreate, a woman simply has to write a letter to whatever agency is controlling this program that expresses she would like to get pregnant and could she please have the bc taken out of her water. The only qualification is that she cannot be on public assistance and she has participated in a basic parenting course. She must also have either the agreement of the prospective father, or else waive any and all claims of ever receiving child support.

My reasoning is that I really believe that so many societal problems are caused by women having children before they are ready and then not being able to take care of their children or are not willing to take care of their children. This would also have the side benefit of removing 99% of the whole abortion controversy out of the light of day, since no woman would find herself accidentally pregnant.
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,985
Points
29
Peace at last, Peace at last.

Journeymouse said:
[*]Ireland belongs to the Irish, dammit. If the Unionists are so determined to be 'English', maybe they should move over this side of the Irish Sea. And this round isn't 'our' fault, 'we' were invited
I take back all the prior hostility. Please forgive me. You are the cat's meow.
 
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