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Upscale chains as economic indicators

JNA

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
26,673
Points
70
michaelskis said:
how many people out there have a Smokey Bones? ...

We have one, but they were not the orginal tenent, a just remodel.
? Is this a potential thread - how different tenents have remodeled one location?
 
Messages
44
Points
2
Dibella's well worth a visit when in Rochester. I guess Wegmasn tried to copy, but it is not the same. Dibella's wins my vote for the best sandwich. Anyone ever have a spiedie sandwich. Its a Binghamton thing...!
 
Messages
1
Points
0
Is Rochester ever going to get a Quizno's? Recently they have been showing the commercials on local channels, and many other upscale stores have been moving into parts of the area.
 

Jen

Cyburbian
Messages
1,702
Points
26
In the opposite direction of upscale consumerism there is a small city nearby, Cedar SPrings, I think, that is close to approving their 4th Dollar Store. That's bad news IMO.
 

Tranplanner

maudit anglais
Messages
7,937
Points
39
nismo said:
Is Rochester ever going to get a Quizno's? Recently they have been showing the commercials on local channels, and many other upscale stores have been moving into parts of the area.

You'll have to hop on the ferry and come to Toronto for your Quizno's fix...they're popping up all over the place here.
 
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biscuit

Cyburbian
Messages
3,899
Points
25
JNA said:
OK mentioning sandwich joints, which do do you like better

Schlotzsky's vs. Quizno's vs. _________?

Schlotzsky's large original sandwich with hot sauce and balsamic vinegar. Yum! We have Quizno's all over the place here, but alas, there is no Schlotzsky's Deli. :-(

Back to the original subject I indeed do think that the presence of chains is oneindicater of a region/city/neighborhoods economic health. Here we have a couple of neighborhoods that started out with local shops, but as they became more popular and the neighborhood became home to more and more wealthy urbanites the chains begin to move in. So what was once a local shoe store has become a Starbucks, Sephora, J-Crew, Pottery Barn etc...

Most large companies will not move into an area where the market for thier products is not big enough for them to sustain a healthy profit. Therfore the larger and more money there is in a market the more likely it is you will find high end retail and restaurants chains.
 
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Wulf9

Member
Messages
922
Points
22
Upscale chains are like a high end shopping center, even if they are located in a downtown or other neighborhood.

Very upscale areas don't have chains, they have small and one of a kind upper end retail establishments.

Upper end chains have the same problem as lower end chains. Anyone shopping there can identify the goods. Target shoppers will know what comes from Target. Restoration Hardware shoppers will know what comes from Restoration Hardware.

The one-of-a kind upscale shops offer goods where the source cannot be identified.

That being said, upscale chains are usually a sign that an area has a strong economic base and a savvy customer base. So it's good to have them.
 

DBR96

Member
Messages
4
Points
0
Pittsburgh is probably the largest city in the country without Nordstrom or Lord & Taylor. As for the list above...

* Neiman Marcus = NO
* Saks = YES
* Restoration Hardware = NOT SURE
* Whole Foods = YES
* P.F. Chang's = YES
* Macaroni Grill = NOT SURE
* Morton's Steakhouse = NO
* Expo Home Center = NOT SURE
* Ruth's Chris Steakhouse = YES
* Bed Bath and Beyond = YES
* Z Gallerie = NOT SURE
* Anthropologie = YES
* Urban Outfitters = NOT SURE
* Crate & Barrel = YES
* Cheesecake Factory = YES
* Hops = NOT SURE
* All of the theme chains (excepting Hard Rock at the Falls). = YES (Hard Rock Cafe)
* Black Eyed Pea = NOT SURE
* Landry's = NOT SURE
* Houston's = NOT SURE
* Longhorn Steakhouse = NOT SURE
* Tony Roma's = NOT SURE
* Ruth's Chris = YES
* Chevy's = NOT SURE
* On The Border = NOT SURE
* Panera Bread = YES
* Carrabba's Italian Grill = YES
* Lowe's = YES

Maybe some of the people who live there can help me fill out the "NOT SURE's." I haven't been there since 2001.

Interestingly enough, despite not having a Nordstrom or a Lord & Taylor, Pittsburgh does have an IKEA. Not only that, but Pittsburgh's IKEA was built in 1992, and was one of the first 10 locations in the U.S. Also, in a recent issue of Automobile magazine, the "Four Seasons Logbook" entry for the Subaru Legacy stationwagon mentions one of the magazine's staff members making his "annual pilgrimage to Pittsburgh" to shop at IKEA. (Automobile magazine is based in Detroit.)
 

BKM

Cyburbian
Messages
6,461
Points
29
nismo said:
Is Rochester ever going to get a Quizno's? Recently they have been showing the commercials on local channels, and many other upscale stores have been moving into parts of the area.

As if Quiznos is a positive thing. Strictly "meh" to me.
 

drucee

Cyburbian
Messages
229
Points
9
DBR96, how many of those are in that new "lifestyle center" they just built in Homestead?

Chico's
Restoration Hardware
Talbots
Orvis
Ben and Jerry's
Whole Foods
Mercedes or Rolls Dealer


Ridgewood, NJ (a very whitebread, upscale suburb of New York in Bergen County) has all of these. And 96 restaurants of low to middling quality. AND NOT ONE HARDWARE STORE (except for Restoration, of course). The town is full of bored housewives in yoga pants driving BMW X5s and Acura MDXs by day, and by night, it is overrun with high-school students from the neighboring towns who walk back and forth down Ridgewood Avenue and smoke weed by the rear entrance of the Starbucks. The place is a suburban-sanitized version of urbanity, redeemed only by its train station. 40 minutes and you're in Manhattan. About seven years ago, a British bank moved a large group of its employees to New Jersey. They were relocated to Ridgewood because of its resemblance to British towns of similar size.
OK, they've got the high-street thing right. Chain shops and car parks. But a couple of good pubs (the town has ZERO places to drink) and a curry shop would certainly help.

And let's add a few more names to that list of upscale yuppieburbs:
Highland Park, IL
Evanston, IL
Chagrin Falls, OH
Del Mar, CA
Pasadena, CA
Oakville, Ontario (not even Canada is immune)
Walnut Creek, CA
Coral Gables, FL
Millburn, NJ
Wellesley, MA
West Hartford, CT
Brentwood, TN
Mountain Brook, AL
 

jtmnkri

Cyburbian
Messages
106
Points
6
Dan said:
Despite the percieved evil of chains, I'm convinced that their presence can be used as an indicator of a region's economic health. Consider Buffalo, New York. Upscale retail and restaurant chains that are well-established throughout the United States (and often Canada) don't have a presence in Buffalo, and probably never will...My major point, though, is that it's telling -- very telling -- that so few upscale retail and restaurant chains have considered a location in Buffalo.

The presence of the upscale retailers indicates high population density and high average household income levels. Less often, a large number of upscale retailers reflects a large volume of high income tourists.

In my former job, I was developments and acquisitons manager for an international shopping center developer and owner. It was my responsibility to look for development sites or existing underperforming shopping centers that matched the requirements of fashion retailers, like Saks, Gap, Polo, and Adidas.

These retailers focus on two main things when selecting geographic areas for new stores: population density and household income. Separate factors are considered when selecting a location within a qualifying geographic area.

Places with good household income and low population density, like Alaska, are avoided. Areas with high population density but low average household income, such as Mexico City, can work if there are enough high income households in the trade area. At the top of the list are places featuring high population and high household income. Tokyo, Japan, is best by a wide margin. In the US, northern New Jersey and Orange County, California, are probably the best examples.

Retailers and shopping center developers rely on GIS software to get the income and population data on which they base decisions. Its astonishingly easy to set parameters - say, households with > $50,000 income within 10 miles of intersection of Main and Broad - and get data and maps showing the results.

Retailers make location decisions without emotion and largely on the basis of objective demographic data. If your area has high population density but features few upscale retailers, it indicates a miserable economic situation.
 

steel

Cyburbian
Messages
453
Points
14
Buffalo has always been slow to get any kind of chain either upscale or lowbrow. This is both good and bad of course. Currently Buffalonians travel up to Hamilton to shop at IKEA. Inside the city's boarders there are very few national chains except for the over abundance of drugstore super chains.

Some Buffalo area local stores are so dominant that it will be difficult for a national chain to break in. This would be true in the supermarket sector. The two local super super markets Tops and Wegmans are extremely competative and have developed a store prototype which is based on very large stores with extremely high quality and product diversity. People in Buffalo would not understand the Trader Joes store concept because of these local stores.

I have to take exception to Dan's comments on Buffalo's restaurants. Though it certainly has its share of Bar food places and local American fried food establishments its retaurant scene is very active and there are many fine dining places. Growing up in Buffalo's Elmwood district the Polish corner fish fry place was no where to be seen for me.

Buffalo is not going to compete with NYC or Chicago in the fine dining cattagory but it is no slouch either and probably puts many more wealthy cities to shame.

The best situation is a healthy mix of local and national chains and individulay owned stores in a walkable business strip. Unfortunately that kind of mix only occures in the biggest cities and perhaps in a rare few other cases.
The most common situation is a strip center filled only with chains. Buffalo is an odd ball in that even its suburban malls will have a few locally owned one-off stores.
 

Bear Up North

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
9,323
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31
Maybe It Really Is A Lake Erie Thing

Another poster mentioned that the cities around Lake Erie seem to dominate a list of communities without a lot of upscale retail chains.

This Bear is not a mall walker so my count may be slightly off. But I counted just four (4) retail from Dan's original list. The local (and very successful) regional mall in Toledo is adding about twenty-five (25) more stores. Probably some from that list because the news media is indicating that the new wing will have "upscale" additions.

Also, across the street from the regional mall is a bowling alley......and it will be torn down in the next month to make way for the chain mentioned by michaelskis , Smokey Bones.

Slightly-off-topic: I have always heard that in the 1960's and 1970's, K-Mart (and their site crew) determined the best locations for their type of retailing. In the 1980's and the 1990's, Wal-Mart would build on the opposite corners. I know of a few in this area of NW Ohio where that happened.

Bear
 

cnyOntario

Member
Messages
64
Points
4
Swarovski and Aldo just opened in Syracuse.

Someone asked about Smokey Bones, Syracuse has one. I know someone who works there and he said it is always busy.

Also, someone mentioned Walgreens avoiding the Syracuse area. Not true any longer. Walgreens has at least 4 stores planned for Greater Syracuse. One is proposed for a corner just down the street from my house.

Other retail news. Carrabba's Italian Grill does really good business in Syracuse. Panera Bread is opening new stores all over the Syracuse area. Lowe's is opening their first Syracuse store this year. Quiznos is opening all around and in Syracuse too.Lord & Taylor in Syracuse is an OK store, but I'd rather have Macy's in Syracuse. Maybe that will happen now that May was bought out. I don't know anything about Bonefish Grill, but they are opening in Syracuse later this year.
 

UpstateNYRox

Cyburbian
Messages
44
Points
2
Updating whats been going with chains in the Buffalo area since this long running thread has started:

-Ruth's Chris Steakhouse, Cheesecake Factory and Abuelo's Mexican Food Embassy are planned as part of the Walden Galleria expansion

-Lowes has opened its first Buffalo area store in Orchard Park (2 more are currently under construction)

-Kohls has opened 3 stores

-Quiznos Sub has opened 12 area locations mostly in the northtowns

-Atlanta Bread Company, Carrabba's Italian Grill, Tony Roma's have all opened up locations

-Smokey Bones BBQ, Jared Galleria of Jewelry, and Buffalo's 2nd Fuddruckers location are currently under construction across from the Walden Galleria

-Dave & Buster's and Orvis are coming to the Eastern Hills Mall

-Tex-Mex chains Salsarita's and Moe's Southwest Grill are entering the market

-Cold Stone Creamery recently announced multiple Buffalo locations are in the works
 

jsk1983

Cyburbian
Messages
2,531
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25

steel

Cyburbian
Messages
453
Points
14
jsk1983 said:
I tend not to put much faith in these Galleria exspansions. It seems like they're always announcing some massive exspansion but it never goes through. We'll just have to wait and see.


The Galleria Mall has been expanded 5 times. Most recently when the huge Galyans (now Dicks) was added. I think it has more than 1.5 M sf of space. It will be interesting to see what happens though with the May stores. Both Lord and Taylor and Kaufmans are talked about as being converted to Macy's. I am sure they will not have 2 macy's in the mall.
 

UpstateNYRox

Cyburbian
Messages
44
Points
2
steel said:
The Galleria Mall has been expanded 5 times. Most recently when the huge Galyans (now Dicks) was added. I think it has more than 1.5 M sf of space. It will be interesting to see what happens though with the May stores. Both Lord and Taylor and Kaufmans are talked about as being converted to Macy's. I am sure they will not have 2 macy's in the mall.

It was reported in the Buffalo News that the Kaufmanns store will likely turn into a Macy's and the Lord & Taylor into Bloomingdales. This thread on SSP has a copy of the News article about the subject near the bottom of the page.
 
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steel

Cyburbian
Messages
453
Points
14
UpstateNYRox said:
It was reported in the Buffalo News that the Kaufmanns store will turn into a Macy's and the Lord & Taylor into Bloomingdales.


That is very good news. Bloomingdales is a very upscale name. Macy's not bad either.
 

thestip

Cyburbian
Messages
113
Points
6
steel said:
That is very good news. Bloomingdales is a very upscale name. Macy's not bad either.

Now if only this shopping mecca was not located on a former swamp surrounded in a sea of parking... +o(
 

Rumpy Tunanator

Cyburbian
Messages
4,463
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25
steel said:
That is very good news. Bloomingdales is a very upscale name. Macy's not bad either.

Its not good news when the area continues to lose jobs and population.
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050420/1040789.asp
"The jobs are moving to where the people are going . . . it's not clear what policy can do to address this," said Richard Deitz, regional economist at the Buffalo Branch of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

The twin forces of declining jobs and declining population are reinforcing each other, as growth shifts to other regions of the country, Deitz said in a paper published Tuesday based on U.S. Census figures.
Gee I wonder why the can't figure out what policy would reverse this decline? Cough* Maybe get rid of the high Taxes, High cost of doing business, incompentent local, state politicians, etc. *Cough.





biscuit said:
Schlotzsky's large original sandwich with hot sauce and balsamic vinegar. Yum! We have Quizno's all over the place here, but alas, there is no Schlotzsky's Deli.
There use to be one on 6th St between Penn Av and the 6th St Bridge, where a pizza place/bar is now (if it didn't go under). I remember when we were cleaning out the joint there was jars of olives and peppers with the Schlotzsky's label on it.
 

steel

Cyburbian
Messages
453
Points
14
Is Quiznos considered upscale or have our standards come downscale to the point they are looking up at Quiznos?
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,589
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34
steel said:
Is Quiznos considered upscale or have our standards come downscale to the point they are looking up at Quiznos?

No. Biscuit is probably self medicating. :)
 

hilldweller

Cyburbian
Messages
3,863
Points
23
Went to a Smokey Bones in Albany and couldn't get over the bar atmosphere. Everyone was glued to at least a dozen or so tv's above the bar and each seat had its own remote control. Other the other chains this way?
 

steveanne

Member
Messages
176
Points
7
nismo said:
Is Rochester ever going to get a Quizno's? Recently they have been showing the commercials on local channels, and many other upscale stores have been moving into parts of the area.


There are at least two in Rochester now that I know of. One is at the ferry terminal in Charlotte and the other is on West Henriettea Road. Both just opened.
 

UpstateNYRox

Cyburbian
Messages
44
Points
2
Dan said:
Despite the percieved evil of chains, I'm convinced that their presence can be used as an indicator of a region's economic health. Consider Buffalo, New York. Upscale retail and restaurant chains that are well-established throughout the United States (and often Canada) don't have a presence in Buffalo, and probably never will. Buffalo may be the largest city in the country without the following:

* Neiman Marcus
* Saks
* Restoration Hardware
* Whole Foods
* P.F. Chang's
* Macaroni Grill
* Morton's Steakhouse
* Expo Home Center
* Ruth's Chris Steakhouse
* Bed Bath and Beyond
* Z Gallerie
* Anthropologie
* Urban Outfitters
* Crate & Barrel
* Cheesecake Factory
* Hops
* All of the theme chains (excepting Hard Rock at the Falls).
* Black Eyed Pea
* Landry's
* Houston's
* Longhorn Steakhouse
* Tony Roma's
* Ruth's Chris
* Chevy's
* On The Border
* Panera Bread
* Carrabba's Italian Grill
* Lowe's (Home Depot is the only home improvement big box in Buffalo; there's a local chain of smaller stores called Valu Hardware. It's local, but it's also ... ehhh.)

You can cross Panera off thet list. They're making their entrance into Buffalo with 3 northtown locations: http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050506/1009779.asp
 

Kovanovich

Cyburbian
Messages
180
Points
7
This very long running thread got off track very early on -- people always seem fascinated by which chains are in various parts of the country for some reason. Dan's original point of emphasis was using the presense of chains in a city or region as an indicator of economic vitality. We could probably come up with some sort of statistic or algorithm based on the number of chains that would track pretty closely with per capita income (or, perhaps bettter, median household). I have long said that the motto of Fairfax County, Va. should be that you are never more than a five minute drive from a Ruby Tuesday (unless, of course, you are stuck in traffic).

The more interesting point that Dan hinted at is the role chains have played in the development or decline of cities and metro areas. Attracting a chain became at some point an indicator that corporate America believed your community to be "middle class" or otherwise worthy of their product. I think that this trend, based on sophisticated market research of the chains, must have tended to furhter the growth of up-and-coming areas (and promoted the outer suburbs generally, which happened pretty much everywhere around the country), and served to accelerate decline in less fortunate areas (including inner cities generally). Commercialization played a huge role in furthering the process (the ethnic community centers weren't advertising on TV, unlike TGI Friday's, even though the ethnic clubs had better food and a much better atmosphere).

I can't demonstrate (at present) the role of chains in this entire process, but it has been a profound one. Oh, and for the record (not that anyone particularly cares), except for some local chains, I can't stand any of them, with the exception of this new phenomenon of upscale fastfood (e.g. Baja Fresh, Panera, Chipotle).
 

Plannerbabs

Cyburbian
Messages
1,037
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23
Ok, so dragging the thread back to its original premise, I had a thought last night and thought I would share it with the throbbing brian. It might be a chicken and egg thing, not sure.
Would you say that if a given chain, say, a certain well-known, widespread coffeehouse, moves into an area, does that mean that the area is on its way up or has proven itself worthy in some way or another of receiving lattes, or could the location of that chain coffeehouse help revitalize the area? The reason I'm asking, is that we have our fair share of big boxes. I know these more upscale chains have certain criteria for locating--they tend to be cautious and want to go where the market already is (even though said market may appear to be heading towards saturation). But...with the upscale chains, people are often willing to drive longer distances just to experience them. So, why not locate in a big box in a stable but perhaps not chic area of town? Perhaps that location would spur other trendy locals and chains to re-populate a dying strip mall? Just a thought...and mods, if I've dragged this topic way off, please put it in the right place.
 

boiker

Cyburbian
Messages
3,887
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26
Plannerbabs said:
So, why not locate in a big box in a stable but perhaps not chic area of town? Perhaps that location would spur other trendy locals and chains to re-populate a dying strip mall? Just a thought...and mods, if I've dragged this topic way off, please put it in the right place.

I think that major corporations aren't willing to take the risk to do that. The percieved crime, incongruent demographics would squash any attempt at a corporate level to locate there unless significant incentives were provided by the local community.

I just look here at how hard it is to get a grocery store to locate in our southside neghborhoods. There are 15,000 low-income residents in a mod-high crime area and we can't do anything here to get any chain grocer to locate there. All these low income, mostly car-less families need to commute 15-25 minutes by bus to the nearest place to buy a can of beans or a bag of chips.... there's not even any chain convenience or discount crap grocery willing to locate there. With the density of that area, I could imagine the buying power to be nearly as strong as a stable middle class area.

On starbucks, in my community they are locating on commute/traffic routes where upper income/middle income drivers will be going by. It really has nothing to do with the demographics of the immediate neighborhoods.

I was just talking with another planner on how retailing is pretty much maxed out with what additional profits it can generate with the current retailing format. The solution for many is to abandon one-size fits all store programming and start tailoring their inventory based upon the local demo's of the sales region and customer survey results. Even companies like Best Buy are tailoring their electronic and media inventory to local tastes.

I think your going to see more national retail chains considering fringe, small market or less than desirable areas if these retailing changes are successful (and share-holders are happy). But even then, significant "incentives" and local encouragement will be required to get them to locate.
 

illinoisplanner

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5,334
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25
steveanne said:
How about this... Rochester, NY and Syracuse NY do not contain a single one of these... They are the largest drug chain in the U.S. Yes, that's Walgreens... Avoiding Rochester and Syracuse like the plague.


Dan, I am assuming your list only includes the city of Buffalo? There are Bed Bath and Beyonds in Amherst and in the Galleria.


I think CVS or Eckerd had long dominated those markets. That's why Walgreens has avoided the Northeast area for so long. I used to work for the company, and in their company magazine, I once saw a map and it was sparse in many markets in the Northeast. They'll come around though. And what does Walgreens have to worry when they have locations on every street corner in IL and FL.
 

illinoisplanner

Cyburbian
Messages
5,334
Points
25
NHPlanner said:
The chains are slowly making their way here, though, yes, may parts of New England are staunchly opposed to big box development.

We have, or are seeing an influx of, the following:

Best Buy

No kidding. I keep record of all Best Buy locations in the U.S. since I think they are a good economic indicator and have a growing widespread presence throughout the U.S. I was surprised to find out that there are like 5 or 6 locations there. Even Lebanon has one, as does Salem, which I think serves Lowell, MA. Your state must have one of the highest Best Buy per capita rates in the country.

UPDATE:
West Lebanon, NH
Concord, NH
Manchester, NH
Nashua, NH
Portsmouth/Newington, NH
Salem, NH

Any ideas on what the draw is?
 

Dan

Dear Leader
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Moderator
Messages
19,337
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71
Since this thread is still going strong, here's an updated but by no means complete "everywhere but Buffalo" list.

Retail (national and Northeast/Great Lakes chains; a very short list. It could go much, much longer given some time.)

ebb19xx.jpg

(By the way, that little yellow box in WNY is in Rochester. Coldwater Creek is probably the most extreme example of EBB I've found.)

* Anthropologie
* Coldwater Creek
* Crate & Barrel
* Expo Home Center
* H&M
* Joseph-Beth Bookstore
* Neiman Marcus
* Norwalk
* Restoration Hardware
* Saks
* Swarovskii
* Trader Joe's
* Urban Outfitters
* Whole Foods
* Wild Oats
* Z Gallerie

Interesting fact - when Montgomery Ward was still around, they were another EBB chain.

Everywhere-but-Buffalo restaurant chains. (National and Northeast/Great Lakes local chains, again by no means complete.)

ebb28ki.jpg


ebb31lp.jpg


ebb47td.jpg


* Baja Fresh
* Baker's Square
* BD's Mongolian Barbecue
* Benihana
* Biaggi's
* Bravo!
* Brio Tuscan Grill
* Bugaboo Creek Steakhouse
* California Pizza Kitchen
* Capital Grille
* Champps
* Cheeseburger in Paradise
* Chevy's
* Chipotle
* Claddagh
* Fado
* Gillian's
* Have a Nice Day
* Hops
* Houston's
* J. Alexander’s
* Joe’s Crab Shack
* Johnny Carino’s
* Landry's Seafood
* Lonestar Steakhouse
* Longhorn Steakhouse
* Maggiano's Little Italy
* Manchu Wok
* Max and Erma’s
* McCormick's Fish House
* Melting Pot
* Mitchell's Fish Market
* Morton's Steakhouse
* Nothing but Noodles
* On The Border
* Palm Steakhouse
* P.F. Chang's
* Panera Bread
* Papa John's Pizza
* Qdoba
* Quaker Steak
* Red Robin
* Rockfish Seafood
* Romano's Macaroni Grill
* Ruth's Chris Steakhouse
* Schlotzsky’s Deli
* Sonic Drive-In
* Ted's Montana Grill
* Texas Roadhouse

That's a HUGE roster of high-profile chains that are EBB. I don't think BD's Mongolian Barbecue or Houston's is avoiding the Buffalo market because they see mom and pop Greek family-style and Southern Italian restaurants as competition. Is Chipotle avoiding Buffalo because of Mighty Taco? Is P.F. Chang's afraid of Happy China Lucky Panda Dragon Star Buffet in T.J Maxx Plaza in Cheektowaga?

Restaurants/dining supposedly coming to Buffalo (after God-knows-how-many-years)

* Cheesecake Factory
* Mexican Food Embassy
* Dave and Buster's
* Smokey Bones
* Panera Bread
* Ruth's Chris Steakhouse
* Cold Stone Creamery

What's amazing that that when a national chain moves into the Buffalo area, it really makes quite a stir. In other similarly sized cities, there would barely be a ripple. The "We finally have a Tony Roma's now!" reaction I heard the last time I was home was similar to the "We're finally on the map! We now have a Pizzeria Uno/Red Lobster/Hooter's/Chili's/Starbuck's/Garduno's!" comments in Las Cruces from several years ago.. As Kovanovich said, it was "an indicator that corporate America believed (the) community to be middle class or ... worthy of their product" among Las Crucenos.

That small town "we've a'mayd it now, 'cause we've a'gawt uh Wawl-Mahrt!" attitude in Buffalo tells me that, in some way, Buffalonians are acknowledging that they're falling from the tier of what America considers to be large cities, and that they are finally starting to see themselves as a smaller city now, almost akin to a Peoria, Scranton or Topeka rather than in the same league as a Kansas City or Milwaukee.
 

cnyOntario

Member
Messages
64
Points
4
^ I know what you mean. Syracuse's first Lowe's is opening soon. Lowe's has been in Binghamton, NY for nearly a decade and it took this long for it to come 70 miles up Interstate 81.

Syracuse is about half the size of Buffalo, but I think Syracuse is treated in the same way as Buffalo. Chains treat Syracuse as a Utica, a Binghamton, and a Erie instead of peer metros like Toledo, Harrisburg, and Des Monies. For example, one restaurant or store may open up in Utica, Binghamton, Ithaca and Watertown to cover the entire urban area. Then if and when they arrive in Syracuse, they only place one store or restaurant here, believing that Syracuse can't handle more than that.

Even though Rochester and Albany aren't exactly peer metros with Syracuse, I still think those metros have more in common with Syracuse than metros like Binghamton and Ithaca. Therefore, when I see Rochester and Albany have stores and restaurants that Syracuse doesn't have yet, I consider it an insult.

Here is a list of Restaurants in Buffalo, Rochester or Albany, but not in the Syracuse market. (Two years ago, this list was much longer)

*Don Pablos
*Dairy Queen
*Boston Market
*Tim Hortons
*Macaroni Grill
*Bucadi Beppo
*Baskin-Robbins
*Cinema Grill
*Fuddruckers
*Popeyes
*Fazoli's
*Damon's Grill
*Buffalo Wild Wings
*Roadhouse Grill
*PF Chang's China Bistro
*Lone Star Steakhouse
*Steak-Out
*Long John Silver's
*Champps Entertainment
*Red Robin
*Bugaboo Creek Steakhouse
*Weathervane Seafoods
*Biaggi's Ristorani Italiana
*Atlanta Bread
*The Melting Pot
*99 Restaurant & Pub
*Houlihan's
*Jack Astor's
*Tony Roma's
*Nothing But Noodles
*Firkin & Fox
*Papa John's
*Perkins
 

steveanne

Member
Messages
176
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7
Update

illinoisplanner said:
I think CVS or Eckerd had long dominated those markets. That's why Walgreens has avoided the Northeast area for so long. I used to work for the company, and in their company magazine, I once saw a map and it was sparse in many markets in the Northeast. They'll come around though. And what does Walgreens have to worry when they have locations on every street corner in IL and FL.


Walgreens will be opening close to 10 stores in the Rochester area within the next few years, as well as opening stores in Syracuse, Watertown, Jamestown, and the Finger Lakes region. They are also increasing their numbers in Buffalo and Niagara Falls. That didn't take long! lol
 

Bear Up North

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
9,323
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Remember, too, that the success of modern retail and restauranting is very dependent on good distribution. A world-class supply chain will keep inventory on the move (not tying up dollars, leaving money available for promotion) and keep the shelves and the kitchens stocked with what the consumer wants.....now.

Walgreen's builds these huge state-of-the-art DC's, trains a slew of employees, and starts opening more stores in a geographic radius to that DC. Suburban Toledo has one (1), built a couple years ago. Walgreen's stores suddenly started to pop-up all over Toledo.

This Bear had a chance to tour the Walgreen's DC just before it opened. Wow!

Bear Seeing :8: :8: Miles & Miles Of Conveyors
 

UpstateNYRox

Cyburbian
Messages
44
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2
steveanne said:
Walgreens will be opening close to 10 stores in the Rochester area within the next few years, as well as opening stores in Syracuse, Watertown, Jamestown, and the Finger Lakes region. They are also increasing their numbers in Buffalo and Niagara Falls. That didn't take long! lol

Speaking of Walgreens, I was down in the Pittsburgh area last month and passed by their one and only location which was celebrating its grand opening! I found it amazing that a major metro area like Pittsburgh was just being introduced to a major chain store thats been long established in most of the US. Walgreens has been here in Buffalo for at least a decade.
 
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