• Cyburbia is a friendly big tent, where we share our experiences and thoughts about urban planning practice, planning adjacent topics, and whatever else comes to mind. No ads, no spam, no echo chambers. Create your FREE Cyburbia ID, and join us today! You can also register through your Reddit, Facebook, Google, Twitter, or Microsoft account.

Volunteer Fire Department vs Lunenburg

SGB

Cyburbian
Messages
3,387
Points
25
Most fire departments (volunteer or professional) work closely with municipal building department staffs.

WTF were the volunteers thinking?
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,624
Points
34
Jeez that hit close to home. Our volunteer departments are not much different in their ways.

notice I said departments as in plural. We have two of them, and they are private corporations that the City contracts with. Its really wierd.
 

SkeLeton

Cyburbian
Messages
4,853
Points
26
Oh you have voluteer firefighters too? Here in Chile we have Profesional Volunteer Firefighters, as in firefighters that don't get paid, but have to train a lot...
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,080
Points
34
I could not open the first link, so I'm not sure what I am commenting on. All I know is that in my experience, volunteer fire departments tend to think they are "golden" and "heros" who should get whatever they want.

Mod edit from Chet: I found if you cut and paste the URL into your browser's address box it will work.

-Definitely worth the read


mod edit from giff..link repaired
 

Jeff

Cyburbian
Messages
4,161
Points
27
Its pretty dumb for the FD to go ahead and build the addition without the proper approvals. Having worked in the vollie service for about 7 years now I can say that these types of things are basically a rubber stamp approval, but you at least have to go through the motions!

I think the township should be more embarassed by the fact that they released a statement that their FD bought a "used" truck. Thats a disgrace IMO.

Kinda OT ...

You can probably expect alot of this, or at least alot of expanding firehouses in the future. The new trucks just don't fit in the older stations anymore.
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,624
Points
34
Mike D. said:
You can probably expect alot of this, or at least alot of expanding firehouses in the future. The new trucks just don't fit in the older stations anymore.
Aint that the truth! We've torn down and rebuilt 3 of 4 stations in the past few years.
 

donk

Cyburbian
Messages
6,970
Points
30
Small Towns and small budgets = used equipment.

Used trucks are really common here. The fire trucks at my parent's station are antiques. One is a modified WWII deuce and a half hiome made tanker truck the other is from the 50's. Even in the city I live in the newest truck (ladder) was bought used and is probably 15 years old.
 

Jeff

Cyburbian
Messages
4,161
Points
27
donk said:
Small Towns and small budgets = used equipment.

Used trucks are really common here. The fire trucks at my parent's station are antiques. One is a modified WWII deuce and a half hiome made tanker truck the other is from the 50's. Even in the city I live in the newest truck (ladder) was bought used and is probably 15 years old.

A disgrace. Older trucks don't pump enough water to put out today's fires. I bet you make your vollies stand in the middle of the street and collect money in their boots from passerbys?

You should be ashamed to call Lunenburg home :c:
 

SW MI Planner

Cyburbian
Messages
3,195
Points
26
I bet you make your vollies stand in the middle of the street and collect money in their boots from passerbys?
The IAFF does this each year to collect money for MDA. I personally hate being approached while in my car for anything, but I wouldn't tell Chad that.

The equipment here is relatively new with the exception of a 1965 Snorkel which is in pretty good condition.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,447
Points
44
For the city of Reading, we have about a dozen or so former fire houses that where turned into commercial or residential space. But now the fire department is all up in arms that it needs more fire houses. *hmmm maybe buy some of the old ones back???

As for your situation, that is FUBAR. What were the firemen thinking? (OH THIS IS FOR THE GOOD OF THE CITY. Rules are Rules… follow them, or leave.
 

donk

Cyburbian
Messages
6,970
Points
30
when we had the fire at my parents we had to go to the river cut a hole in the ice (30 inches) and pump water into the tanker then cart it back to the house. Then pump it into a "swimming pool" then refill. The longest 15 minutes ever.

The majority of their funding comes from the gov't, for basic operation anything above and beyond that they have to supply.

In my parent's community the vollies hold a chicken BBQ every year and clean chimneys. The also usually get a donation from the person's whose house burnt.
 

Jeff

Cyburbian
Messages
4,161
Points
27
Not sure how it works in Canuck land, but the vollies can also file a claim against home owners, auto insurance, etc,. There is a standard "cost" list that we use that has a reimbursible cost for any and everything that comes of the truck, i.e. latex gloves $2.00 a pair.

Ladder trucks bill at like $200.00 an hour and engines about $100.00
 

SW MI Planner

Cyburbian
Messages
3,195
Points
26
Not sure how it works in Canuck land, but the vollies can also file a claim against home owners, auto insurance, etc,. There is a standard "cost" list that we use that has a reimbursible cost for any and everything that comes of the truck, i.e. latex gloves $2.00 a pair.
I think they should do that, especially for the 'repeat offenders'. I'm not saying that they should be charged for every single call, especially if it is legitimate, but there are people that call up once a week and complain of Lord knows what and then they get there and everything seems fine and they refuse to go to the hospital. Or when you go to give them an IV or CPR they automatically recover.
 

Jeff

Cyburbian
Messages
4,161
Points
27
Medical calls are different. They do get sent a bill for that. It cost $600.00 just to go for a ride in an ambulance in PA.

The fire service typically does not bill anyone for fire-related services. Its just recently that we are starting to get into it though because trucks are costing in excess of $500K for pumpers and $1M for ladders/specialized pieces.
 

donk

Cyburbian
Messages
6,970
Points
30
costing in excess of $500K for pumpers and $1M for ladders/specialized pieces.
And communities of 200 - 600 people afford these how? That is why our departments get used equipment.
 

Jeff

Cyburbian
Messages
4,161
Points
27
donk said:
And communities of 200 - 600 people afford these how? That is why our departments get used equipment.
Capital programming. They last around 15-20 years if maintained.
 

donk

Cyburbian
Messages
6,970
Points
30
Here unincorporated communities do not have the legal authority to take loans for that long of time period. if I remember correctly, here a fire department can only borrow for up to 5 years for equipment and 7 years for buildings. Makes a $500 000 loan pretty near impossible.
 

gkmo62u

Cyburbian
Messages
1,046
Points
24
They are volunteers for god sakes. You cannot make them tear it down. Figure out a way for them to get the proper development agreement, then issue the permit and inspect it.

There is of course no way to really know whether the VFD was clueless or spiteful.

People build without permits all the time and it seems like most of time local governments figure out a way to forgive.
 

SlaveToTheGrind

Cyburbian
Messages
1,243
Points
23
I had to search for the document since the url in the lead post was abbreviated. Maybe the development agreement can be amended.
 

SkeLeton

Cyburbian
Messages
4,853
Points
26
Mike D. said:
A disgrace. Older trucks don't pump enough water to put out today's fires. I bet you make your vollies stand in the middle of the street and collect money in their boots from passerbys?

You should be ashamed to call Lunenburg home :c:
Yeah, that's Chile's Firefighters reality too...no money to pay them... they have to beg for money, and most of what gets collected ends in the pockets of corrupt officials... The german firefighting station here (the first of Valdivia, and one of the first in Chile) has had some serious fights with the central organization, because they steal things from trucks that are gifted from Germany... Some company in Santiago even stole a zodiac boat that came with a firetruck for the station here... like they were gonna need it in Santiago...
 

jmf

Cyburbian
Messages
594
Points
17
SlaveToTheGrind said:
I had to search for the document since the url in the lead post was abbreviated. Maybe the development agreement can be amended.
There is no development agreement in place.

So I guess to simplify the question - can a Municipality enter into a development agreement on a site where there is an illegal structure?

As for new vs used equipment - I think I would die of shock if I found out that any fire department in NS bought new equipment - with the possible exception of Halifax.
 
Top