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What's with the Denver Area and Walmart?

BKM

Cyburbian
Messages
6,463
Points
29
Why are Denver area municialities so interested in whoring themselves out for WalMart? This is the second recent case I've read. I know sales tax revenue is important, but one part of me is frankly happy the court slapped this abuse of eminent domain down.
 

ludes98

Cyburbian
Messages
1,264
Points
22
It is common for cities dependent on sales tax revenue to whore themselves out. It isn't just for Wally Worlds, but more like any large retailer. My city just recently whored itself out to get IKEA.
 

Habanero

Cyburbian
Messages
3,241
Points
27
ludes98 said:
It is common for cities dependent on sales tax revenue to whore themselves out. It isn't just for Wally Worlds, but more like any large retailer. My city just recently whored itself out to get IKEA.
you bastards, we'd been trying for that for YEARS!! I'm sorry, I can't speak to you any longer, you're one of them!! :p
 

ludes98

Cyburbian
Messages
1,264
Points
22
Habanero said:
you bastards, we'd been trying for that for YEARS!! I'm sorry, I can't speak to you any longer, you're one of them!! :p
I am merely a resident, not an employee!!! ;-)
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,623
Points
34
Cardinal has said it before, and its worth repeating but with the denver slant. Big Boxes follow roof tops. If wal mart isnt coming to your town they will come to the town next door. If sales tax revenue goes next door instead your town, its your loss.
 

NHPlanner

A shadow of my former self
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
9,945
Points
40
Chet said:
Cardinal has said it before, and its worth repeating but with the denver slant. Big Boxes follow roof tops. If wal mart isnt coming to your town they will come to the town next door. If sales tax revenue goes next door instead your town, its your loss.
Except in those places, like NH, where we have no sales tax....property taxes are it around here, and many communities simply don't want the costs of having big box retail, despite the property tax benefits.
 

BKM

Cyburbian
Messages
6,463
Points
29
Chet said:
Cardinal has said it before, and its worth repeating but with the denver slant. Big Boxes follow roof tops. If wal mart isnt coming to your town they will come to the town next door. If sales tax revenue goes next door instead your town, its your loss.
True, but especially in the case of the Denver City example earlier this year (tear down a multi-business, long time shopping plaza serving a minority group), is sales tax generation the only purpose of government? I have a problem with centralization of private power in this society, and the idea that tax-seeking governments would try to destroy an existing, thriving by some measures community only for short term, debatable gain in sales tax revenues. Sure Wal Mart will come. Don't use government power to force them on the community, though.
 

Dan

Dear Leader
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
18,701
Points
69
Local governments in Colorado charge sales tax, in addition to county sales taxes.

Some Denver suburbs will offer economic development incentives for retailers, in the form of sales tax kickbacks. Let's say ... oh, Arapahoe County gets 4% and Centennial* gets 4% of sales tax revenues. Centennial might offer a large, prestigous retailer a 1% sales tax kickback, or 25% of the tax revenue it gets from them. A municipality may also use TIFs to finance improvements in the area, paying for those improvements with some earmarked sales tax revenue from the development.

What case were you reading about? If it's the Wal-Mart on Parker Road in Pioneer Hills, I may be able to offer some additional insight outside the Forums.

* or Aurora, or Greenwood Village, or wherever.
 

Lee Nellis

Cyburbian
Messages
1,369
Points
29
Tax "piracy" warps land use decisions in many states. Utah is just as bad as CO. My solution has always been that, since the customers are coming from many places, the tax should be collected by the state, then distributed to the cities and counties on the basis of population, not sales.
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,080
Points
34
Lee Nellis said:
Tax "piracy" warps land use decisions in many states. Utah is just as bad as CO. My solution has always been that, since the customers are coming from many places, the tax should be collected by the state, then distributed to the cities and counties on the basis of population, not sales.
Absolutely! Lee, you are so right, but I'd add that there should be a formula to aid poorer communities, rather than simply distribute money per capita. Rural and inner-city communities would be less likely to raise funds under a scenario where taxes would be levied by individual communities, so they would still benefit either way. A state collection with no local sales tax (as we have in Wisconsin) will limit the competition among cities to attract retail. Our efforts at retail development are now almost always intended to meet community shopping needs, promote redevelopment, or create jobs.
 

Belle

Cyburbian
Messages
142
Points
6
BKM said:
True, but especially in the case of the Denver City example earlier this year (tear down a multi-business, long time shopping plaza serving a minority group)
BKM, which one was this?
 

BKM

Cyburbian
Messages
6,463
Points
29
Thanks, Vaughan.

Even beyond the tax dollars is the social impact: government police powers used to degrade entrepeneurship. We talk enldessly about "small business" and the American dream, but use police powers to destroy said small business.

I would complain about it if the OWNER of the shopping center was evicting the tenants, but would still feel its a "legitimate" business decision. When mandatory government power is used, that's where I have a problem.
 

teshadoh

Cyburbian
Messages
435
Points
13
Try suburban Atlanta - primarily Gwinnett County. The zoning board a few months ago had not one but two requests from Wal Mart to develop Super Wal Marts. In both cases it meant they would abandon a location less than 1 mile away & would build up to existing subdivions. The planners said no, the residents shouted no, & even media reported no - but money won out & they voted yes with few reservations.
 
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