Wind and solar power thread

[Chet]

In a few weeks, this may become the Neverending T. Boone Pickens Thread.

 

[ved_theone]

Had watched a documentary in NatGeo aired on TV

which debated on this issue

there are two projects one in Nevada, and one in Spain for Solar Power Plant

Nevada plant tries to feed up 10-20%of energy reqm of Las Vegas, dont knw though about their requirement as I have never moved out of India...Srry:-D

the difference is how they transform solar energy to electricity

Nevada Plant uses, each solar pannels absorbing solar energy directed from solar panel to a center of radius where a chemical is passed for absorbing this heat. This heat is then used to heat the water which later helps to run the turbine

The plant in Spain uses same philosophy but rather in unusual way, number of panels are placed in an area. There is a central tower placed right in the center of this area about 20storeyd height where every panels reflection is targeted, this result in tremendous amount of heat generation at the one place compared to the other mode. Resulting in more power generations

Wind energy is preferably in coastal area but the studies conducted in India, did proved that wind mills installed near the coastal area (Shayadari Region, Maharashtra,India) have led to decreasing monsoon rainfall in internal part of the area.

Hope this question arises another one, where to install wind mills...:-x

 

[Neil]

Richi, I'd like to see an electric car solution in which car manufacturers and energy suppliers agree on a standard "battery cassette," that can be quickly changed. You buy your electric car, lease a battery set, pay such and such per month or year. You could have two or more cassettes. You could recharge them at home, or on long trips exchange the one in your car for a full one at fuel stations. Each cassette would have a digital monitor on it that indicates the charge left, and you would pay the fuel station for the amount of power required to top up the battery you leave behind. Fuel station owners could compete with each other depending on the efficiency and cost of their electricity supplier. (Here in Europe we can change electricity suppliers relatively easily, and there is an electricity market. I don't know how this works in the States.) A cassette based system would get around all your worries about refills and re-charge time. I know some people might object to the weight of the cassette etc, but that is a technical issue that I believe can easily be overcome.

I have never seen this idea proposed anywhere, but I can't believe its original to me. If someone else has seen it or a similar proposal, please let me know.
QUOTE]

This link may be interesting, Israel seems to want to do exactly what you just outlined. There's a lot more information on this project out there, but it should give you the idea.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1705518,00.html

 

[Michele Zone]

It's alive! (The thread, I mean.)

http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2009/07/20/wind-powered-data-center-planned/

 

[Otis]

My city just passed a wind and solar energy ordinance, setting some minimal standards for small-scale installations. earlier we got blue sky certification, and are working on increasing the amount of power we get city-wide from renewable sources. None of them are controversy-free. Wind power is ugly, hydroelectric kills salmon, solar can be ugly, wave can affect fisheries and boating. Conservation and efficiency have to be the two top areas for improvements in energy use.

To the east of us in the Columbia River Gorge are huge wind farms. Drove past them a few weeks ago. The size of the turbines can't be understood until you have something to compare them to. A truck went by us carrying a turbine blade that had to be at least 60 or 70 feet long. Big mother.

 

[Brocktoon]

Wind power is ugly, hydroelectric kills salmon, solar can be ugly, wave can affect fisheries and boating. Conservation and efficiency have to be the two top areas for improvements in energy use.
.

I have never understood the ugly comment regarding solar panels and wind turbines. IMO they are no uglier than a Direct TV dish, power lines, substations, cell towers, cemeteries or the design of most schools (the vast majority look like prisons).

 

[Otis]

I have never understood the ugly comment regarding solar panels and wind turbines. IMO they are no uglier than a Direct TV dish, power lines, substations, cell towers, cemeteries or the design of most schools (the vast majority look like prisons).

I agree that they are no uglier, but everything you mention is ugly. But wind doesn't have to be ugly: http://www.avinc.com/media_gallery/images/clean_power/

 

[Brocktoon]

I agree that they are no uglier, but everything you mention is ugly. But wind doesn't have to be ugly: http://www.avinc.com/media_gallery/images/clean_power/

One of ASU's buildings has these turbines...ironic story...they were destroyed by a wind storm last year.

 

[Michele Zone]

Another wind power article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/23/business/energy-environment/23turbine.html?_r=2

 

[Michele Zone]

Solar power article:
http://www.economist.com/sciencetechnology/displaystory.cfm?story_id=14082027

 

[JNA]

RELATED

Ohio River Hydro Power
Article from the Louisville Courier-Journal:
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20090723/NEWS01/907230332/1008

HIGHLIGHTS:

The barges, with submerged turbines, would each generate relatively little electricity — enough to power about 260 typical homes.

While dams have long been a source of hydroelectric power, using barges to capture the power of moving water — a technique known as hydrokinetics — has been getting attention recently.

“All of this technology is in demonstration mode,” said Doug Hall, who manages the water energy research program for the U.S. Department of Energy's Idaho National Laboratory. “There's a certain amount of speculation going on.”

Federal regulators have issued 144 preliminary permits for similar projects since 2007, with more than 65 on the Mississippi River.

skeptics.
“”Hydrokinetic turbines are unable to produce much electricity because the river current moves too slowly, he said, adding that he has doubts about the long-term reliability of the equipment.

 

[Linda_D]

I have never understood the ugly comment regarding solar panels and wind turbines. IMO they are no uglier than a Direct TV dish, power lines, substations, cell towers, cemeteries or the design of most schools (the vast majority look like prisons).

I think that the giant wind turbines are really an awesome sight when viewed up fairly close. There's a large windfarm that crosses US Route 20 between Darien Lakes State Park and the village of Attica, NY, and several of the turbines are fairly close to the road. I had to meet some people in Attica, so I couldn't spend time looking for a good place to take some pix, but I'm going to have to go back and get some shots.

A lot of wind-power opponents complain about how the turbines "spoil the view" but the ones in NY aren't being put on pristine land. They're being put mostly on farm land, some of which is still actively farmed, but a good amount of it abandoned, either because the farmers have quit farming or just retired. The turbines are no worse than seeing the old Harvestore silos and rotting dairy barns that litter the countryside. At least the turbines are enabling active farmers to keep farming and ex-farmers to keep their land as large parcels rather than selling it off piece-meal for house lots and "farmettes" -- and that's in addition to generating electricity. They're a win-win prospect for rural areas of WNY.

 

[Linda_D]

RELATED

Ohio River Hydro Power
Article from the Louisville Courier-Journal:
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20090723/NEWS01/907230332/1008

HIGHLIGHTS:

There's been talk of generating electricity like this in the Niagara River between Buffalo and Ft Erie, Ontario. I believe the current around the Peace Bridge is around 18 nauts, which ought to be adequate, but at this point, it's just talk.

 

[RWeb]

I also like the fact that solar and wind tend to complement each other: if it isn't a beautiful, sunny day, the odds are good that winds are higher than usual.

QUOTE]

The same goes with HydroStations. Here in NZ, it's been proposed that we utilize as much wind resource as we can, and when there isn't enough wind to fund regions/cities, THEN we open up the hydrodams alittle bit more - basically utilizing the solar/wind energy as much as we can before relying on anything like Hydro/Coal/etc. About 3-4 years ago, NZ was struck with a power issue as our lakes were drying up and we had to pull together to conserve energy, and you know what? We did. As a country, when the chips are down, people will pull together to bring the rest out of remission. Why cant we be like that all the time I'll never know...

On a different note on power saving...anyone got their hands on the new LED Lightbulbs yet?? (Well, they're not exactly 'new'...but still having a hard time on the market due to their cost)

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[boilerplater]

About 3-4 years ago, NZ was struck with a power issue as our lakes were drying up and we had to pull together to conserve energy, and you know what? We did. As a country, when the chips are down, people will pull together to bring the rest out of remission. Why cant we be like that all the time I'll never know...

I'm envious. Here in the US, we don't seem to be making any big strides with renewables and have lost the ability to "pull together". Some seem to consider the push for renewable energy a plot to ruin the economy. I have my doubts that we will have enough in place to buffer our economy against the next round of oil price shocks, keeping us in a state of weak growth.

 

[Faraday]

ITER and wind production

We also must remember that solar & wind can not do it all. We will still have to have back-up sources for when the sun is not shining and the wind is not blowing. Even with very significant conservation I doubt that we could run a civilized society on wind/solar/hydro alone. Especially if we convert much of our transport system to electric as is common in Europe.

You're right Richi. I don't think we can run the entire society with wind/solar/hydro alone. Actual nuclear power plants are a good temporary solutions until the fission technics will be developed for the next generation of nuclear power that will be clean and renewable (see ITER research project in Cadarache, France http://www.itercad.org/welcome.php)

Wind and solar are good local and small scale solutions. The important point with wind turbines is to find good locations so that it produces energy... I've heard about this tool called UrbaWind to predict the wind energy production: http://www.meteodyn.com/en/software/urbawind.html

Best,
Faraday

 

[celia.d]

Right now the solar solutions are improving alot.
There are BIPV panels that look great on building while creating power.
Thin film solar panels that can conform with alot of differently shaped buildings.
There are many new buildings converting to using solar energy to power itself.

Also, there are mini solar and wind converters which are pretty cute. I think they are going to be in CES this year call Hymini. It's made by one of my favourtie companies. It's a little gadget that can use solar, wind, and hand crank to charge hand held gadgets.
I bought one 2 months ago and it worked great when I was travelling. I could charge my mp3 player and cellphone anywhere.

Anyway, I hope there will be more and more green innovations in the small and large scale.

 

[Shellac And Vinyl VelocitY]

Wind energy becomes first source of electritcy for Spain in 2013.

Article: http://www.aeeolica.org/en/new/spai...rst-source-of-electricity-for-an-entire-year/
"Spain was in 2013 the first country where wind energy was the first source of electricity for an entire year," Acociation Empresaria Edica (AEE), 1/15/2014. Snippets:A

ccording to the 2013 advance report of the system operator Red Eléctrica de España (REE), the power demand coverage using wind was 20.9%, compared with 20.8% coming from nuclear.

Wind power production during 2013 has been 54,478 GWh, representing a 13.2% increase over 2012. According to calculations by the Spanish Wind Energy Association (AEE), this generation is enough to supply 15.5 million households, a 90% of the total. Nuclear produced 2,337 GWh more than wind last year, but its contribution to the power demand coverage was lower because it consumes more electricity than wind to run its facilities, and this is deducted when calculating power demand coverage.

2013 could go down in history as a great year for the Spanish wind sector. But it is not the case. The wind power companies ended the year still without knowing the economic impact of the Government’s energy reform. If it goes ahead as proposed, it will have an unfair and disproportionate effect on the wind sector. Companies start 2014 mired in legal uncertainty - retroactivity of legislation set up by the energy reform means that the facilities in place are not going to have the expected income when the investments were made, and without expectation about the future, it is going to be difficult to encourage investors to invest in wind power in this country.

Wind energy was regulated for the first time in Spain Special Regime Law 54/1997 Electrical Sector, which has been replaced by Law 24/2013 in the context of the Energy Reform. During these 16 years, imports of fossil fuels to generate electricity, as well as emissions of pollutants and CO2 to the atmosphere, have been reduced by over 20%.

(Commentary) one day after the above publication:
http://www.geek.com/science/spain-b...nd-power-as-primary-source-of-energy-1582426/ ,snippets:

The [Spain] power generation breaks down as follows:

• Wind power – 20.9%
• Nuclear power – 20.8%
• Coal power – 14.6%
• Hydroelectric power – 14.4%
• Combined-cycle plant power – 9.6%
• Solar power 3.1%

In total, Spain gets 42.4 percent of its energy from renewable sources.
. .
Although there is still a reliance on coal and nuclear, the results from 2013 show a 10.5 percent increase in renewable energy use over the previous year...

Which parts of Spain's renewable energy policy/implementation can be effectively applied to the U.S. and Canada?

 

[Shellac And Vinyl VelocitY]

2016: solar electricity costing less than "conventional" electricity in 36+ States. (Deut.B. report)

...solar electricity is on track to be as cheap or cheaper than average electricity-bill prices in 47 U.S. states -- in 2016, according to a Deutsche Bank report published this week. That’s assuming the U.S. maintains its 30 percent tax credit on system costs, which is set to expire that same year.

Even if the tax credit drops to 10 percent, solar will soon reach price parity with conventional electricity in well over half the nation: 36 states.
. . .

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...r-oil-prices-this-just-happened-to-solar.html

The chart below shows how far solar will come out ahead in each state in 2016, assuming a worst-case scenario of lower tax credits. The blue bars show the anticipated cost of solar energy (assuming a conservative 20-year lifespan for the panels) minus average electricity prices. Positive numbers indicate the savings for every kilowatt hour of electricity.

Grid Parity to Reach 36 States in 2016:
http://www.bloomberg.com/image/i7FAGS1c8QHE.jpg

 

[jameswang]

The problem with both of them are that they take a lot of space to build.