Would you support mandatory national service?

[Downtown]

I've been inspired by our military recruiting thread. So if you do support national military service, how would you structure the program?

I'm strongly in favor and when I'm the benevolent ruler of the country, I would require either 2 years of military service be performed before age 25 or 3 years of non-military service before 28. Acceptable non-military services would include programs like the Peace Corp, Ameri-corp, teaching or providing medical services for areas that are in need.

 

[el Guapo]

No doubt.

Previously expressed views on the subject. We could use a WPA option for these kids.

http://www.cyburbia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2112&highlight=platform

 

[Jeff]

There is something for everyone to do in the military, hey, us Marines always need targets for those that are completely worthless

 

[gkmo62u]

Ok, I'll ask the provocative question: Why? Why must it be mandatory? What happen to volunteerism? Individualism?

I'd have to say I am not in favor of government mandated service, except in the time of national emergency (war, famine etc..)

Of course, i am generally not in favor of government mandated anything...

Oh, and the big question--who might pay for this endeavor? Why the tax payers of course. Somebody do the math, look at the cohorts over a 10 20 year time period, calculate the millions upon millions of twentysomethings going through the "program" then multiply that by some meager, non-living wage--say $15,000, maybe $20,000.

Boy I'm cranky, let me get another cup of coffee.

 

[Cardinal]

I would require service in a legitimate branch of the military (i.e., no Marines).

I like KMateja's idea of two years before age 25, but I would defer it until after college for those enrolled. I would also link it to financial aid. If you serve first, your college is paid for, and if you serve after college, your loans are forgiven. I would give people the option in serving two years in the WPA, directed by El Guapo, or four years in a federal prison.

 

[Jeff]

I would require service in a legitimate branch of the military (i.e., no Marines).

WTF is that supposed to mean?

 

[Downtown]

Ok, I'll ask the provocative question: Why? Why must it be mandatory? What happen to volunteerism?

What did happen to volunteerism in general? Charities are generally desperate for reliable volunteers (except for soup kitchens on Thanksgiving), but how many Americans really extend themselves to actually go so far as to volunteer their time to a service that serves the public good, let alone build a career. Nursing Homes, Volunteer Fire Departments, prisons, social workers, among other fields are facing critical worker shortages.

And maybe this is naive, but I also really believe that national public service would also provide a common base for all Americans - regardless of class or race. I just see the camraderie that already exists between vets - my dad meets another vet and he's set for hours of conversation. I'm just saying, in country that has very little common history or ancestry among its peoples, this could be a common denominator.

 

[Jeff]

Volunteer Fire Departments

Vollie FF/EMT here

 

[Cardinal]

WTF is that supposed to mean?

I'm just saying that, hey, the Marines are not up to the same caliber as, say, the Coast Guard or the Boy Scouts, and there is no way they are anywhere near as good as my own alma mater, the US Army. Calling the Marines a military force is kinda lake calling the University of Kansas an institution of higher learning.

 

[Chet]

I'm just saying that, hey, the Marines are not up to the same caliber as, say, the Coast Guard or the Boy Scouts, and there is no way they are anywhere near as good as my own alma mater, the US Army. Calling the Marines a military force is kinda lake calling the University of Kansas an institution of higher learning.

Mr. Stumpf - are you trying to aggitate everyone on the Board today?

 

[Yodan731]

Michael Stumpf

I'm going to agree with the previous WTF?

In regards to the Marines, of course, did you mean we didn't want any sissy pukes forced into the corps? Or did you mean the corps is valueless and should be eliminated?

Semper Fi

 

[Yodan731]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!! Me get mad now!

 

[donk]

I don't know if mandatory service is what will fix the sense of community / identity issue you have raised. Maybe it will just end up being a big warehouse for individuals with little to no social conscience or duty. For lots of ideas on this read Robert Heinlein, especially Starship Troopers, Space Cadet and Tunnel in the Sky.


My volunteer things are as follows:

1) President provincial cycling association (6 years volunteer time)
2) Board member of the national cycling association (4 years)
3) Board member of my professional association (1 year)
4) Volunteer with local business group from time to time (4 years)

The quesion I have too is what about immigrants? How do they fit in.

 

[Cardinal]

Mr. Stumpf - are you trying to aggitate everyone on the Board today?

I'm sure that as a veteran of the great US Army, I hold no biases against the lesser services. Let me check...

No, no bias there.

 

[nerudite]

With the increased need for security within the U.S. (as well as outside), it would make sense to beef up recruitments. I don't know much about the military, but with all the fear Americans have these days of doing day to day activities, it would make sense for more focus to be put on special security within the U.S. borders. There has been a lot of talk about how there aren't enough employees/money to secure a lot of the venues... so maybe mandatory service could help. Just a thought...

 

[Habanero]

I would think mandatory service could be a good idea, although after watching a Discovery special on boot camp for the Marines, I'm amazed some people are allowed to carry weapons (one female recruit was kicked out because her drug test was positive- she actually thought a few tokes at her going away party wouldn't affect her status).

 

[prudence]

Hmmm...

If military service is so blessed wonderful, why do people leave???

 

[Jeff]

I'm just saying that, hey, the Marines are not up to the same caliber as, say, the Coast Guard or the Boy Scouts.

Oh so that's what you meant....why didn't you just say so


Seriously though, I don't know how a mandatory service would work with the USMC of today. I had the great opportunity to work as a recruiter several years back, and you know what? The USMC actually turns people away, as opposed to the other services who just grab a body.

Those who are forced into the USMC by parents, siblings, neighbors, etc for whatever reason don't last. The USMC doesn't settle for average performance, and so alot of guys wash out.

 

[Cardinal]

Re: Hmmm...

If military service is so blessed wonderful, why do people leave???

There is a lot to be gained by military service that may not require having a career in it. Most of all, it can provide skills training that can translate into a viable trade for many people who don't go on to college. For those who do, there is the opportunity to save money and earn scholarships to defray the cost. I have known many people to put in twenty years to qualify for retirement, then go on to have a second career elsewhere. Lastly, some number of people don't really leave entirely, but transfer to the reserves.

 

[Jeff]

Re: Hmmm...

If military service is so blessed wonderful, why do people leave???

Hmmmm.....

Because some of us have to move on to bigger and better things in life. It is a great place to get started in life, and is a great place to make a career if you choose too.

I chose not to, because the money sucks. Plain and simple you just can't live on $25-30K a year, i don't care if the housing is paid for.....and 29 Palms, CA is nowhere to raise a family

 

[Chet]

Where Mike Stumpf left off - Mandatory service

Ehhh. If I want to do a bunch of push ups with high school drop outs, stoners, and losers, I'll just go down to the YMCA.

 

[Runner]

I'm strongly in favor and when I'm the benevolent ruler of the country, I would require either 2 years of military service be performed before age 25 or 3 years of non-military service before 28. Acceptable non-military services would include programs like the Peace Corp, Ameri-corp, teaching or providing medical services for areas that are in need.

I agree 100% and I would not open up the definition of non-military service as is later suggested. It probably should be defined as national service. As a matter of fact I might even put part of the definition as being service outside of ones home state. The spirit of volunteerism and all that good stuff is really in another category and can be fulfilled in different ways.

 

[Mastiff]

Re: Where Mike Stumpf left off - Mandatory service

Ehhh. If I want to do a bunch of push ups with high school drop outs, stoners, and losers, I'll just go down to the YMCA.

Mr. Turk? Fomenting board dissatifaction?! Say it isn't so!

 

[Runner]

I would require service in a legitimate branch of the military (i.e., no Marines).

Seems that all the "legitimate" branches have been spending a lot of effort to remodel themselves after the Marines.

Look at the army: Ranger Battalions, Rapid Deployment Force, Stryker Brigades (All "wanna be" Marines).

But then again if everyone could be a Marine we would not need the army

 

[Chet]

Re: Re: Where Mike Stumpf left off - Mandatory service

Mr. Turk? Fomenting board dissatifaction?! Say it isn't so!

Dang. I knew someone would pick up on that. Smarty pants.

 

[gkmo62u]

I say again, how will this be paid for?

 

[Runner]

Re: Hmmm...

If military service is so blessed wonderful, why do people leave???

Same reason we recommend going to college: good experience, learn a lot (inside and outside the classroom), etc. However, most of us leave after a few years. Some stay for a career and become professors but most leave for the next step in life.

 

[Chet]

Re: Re: Hmmm...

Some stay for a career and become professors but most leave for the next step in life.

Except for the dumb ones. They become Resident Advisors, Residence Hall Directors, and ultimately become staff at the University Housing office. Oh wait, maybe that was just my alma matter.

 

[NHPlanner]

I say again, how will this be paid for?

By the taxpayers.

 

[gkmo62u]

That my point, NHP, the cost of this new government program is astronomical, with mostly intangible, perhaps marginal results.

Sorry, but I am not buying this warm and fuzzy.

If we are on this kick, which, I admit Kelly is very interesting, then I would suggest this in lieu of a National Service requirement:

Require ALL before age 25 to work for a company (multi-national all things being equal) in the production of a tangible, market product. The life lessons learned from understanding the value of national economy, work ethic, capital markets, production, labor, marketing etc...would far outweigh and provide a much greater benefit to society as a whole in the long run.

But, in the end, I guarantee that the Math does not work to put millions of people on the government payroll for no tangible benefit.

And if the military actually had the need for all these kids, service would already be mandatory.

 

[donk]

It could be paid for by some of the savings realized by not having to lock up all of teh young people who get into trouble because there is nothing else to do. And just think, then most people in the US would have medical coverage as well, being vets and all.

 

[Chet]

It could be paid for by some of the savings realized by not having to lock up all of teh young people who get into trouble because there is nothing else to do. And just think, then most people in the US would have medical coverage as well, being vets and all.

And dont call me Francis. The name is Psycho.

 

[gkmo62u]

B Turk: You just made the list.

 

[el Guapo]

That my point, NHP, the cost of this new government program is astronomical, with mostly intangible, perhaps marginal results.

Sorry, but I am not buying this warm and fuzzy.

If we are on this kick, which, I admit Kelly is very interesting, then I would suggest this in lieu of a National Service requirement:

Require ALL before age 25 to work for a company (multi-national all things being equal) in the production of a tangible, market product. The life lessons learned from understanding the value of national economy, work ethic, capital markets, production, labor, marketing etc...would far outweigh and provide a much greater benefit to society as a whole in the long run.

But, in the end, I guarantee that the Math does not work to put millions of people on the government payroll for no tangible benefit.

And if the military actually had the need for all these kids, service would already be mandatory.

Dude - Your Channeling Muggie - Wake up - Wake up- Wake up.

If it makes just a small portion of our current voting population less self-indulgent assholes it will be worth it all. I want more voters that know what sacrifice for the greater good means.

 

[Jeff]

I want more voters that know what sacrifice for the greater good means.

And I want more that like GUNS.... GUNS!! GUNS!! GUNS!!

 

[Downtown]

Dude - Your Channeling Muggie - Wake up - Wake up- Wake up.

Off Topic:
OMG!!! Last night I had a dream I met Mugbub! She's a 20 something blonde with a frizzy perm named Amanda!
*think I'm spending too much time on Cyburbia*

 

[Jeff]

Off Topic:
OMG!!! Last night I had a dream I met Mugbub! She's a 20 something blonde with a frizzy perm named Amanda!
*think I'm spending too much time on Cyburbia*

Was she hot ??

 

[Habanero]

Off Topic:
OMG!!! Last night I had a dream I met Mugbub! She's a 20 something blonde with a frizzy perm named Amanda!
*think I'm spending too much time on Cyburbia*

Muggie was a she?!? I was thinking more along the lines of a 40 something dyed blond with a frizzy perm named Bruce.

 

[el Guapo]

I always envisioned Muggie as a Les Nessman - Henry Rollins - Newt Gingrich cross.

 

[NHPlanner]

Off Topic:
OMG!!! Last night I had a dream I met Mugbub! She's a 20 something blonde with a frizzy perm named Amanda!
*think I'm spending too much time on Cyburbia*

LOL. Did she have that nice mustache and glasses like this (of course with blonde hair)...

 

[Chet]

LOL. Did she have that nice mustache and glasses like this (of course with blonde hair)...

OMG! MuggiE is a TRANPLANNER?

 

[Downtown]

No - Amanda/Muggie was definitely NOT hot. and I'm pretty sure real life Muggie was a guy. but you guys make me laugh.