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YAY Our town took the 2003 National Civil Engineering Achievement Award

Repo Man

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The "wings" open and close. Here in Milwaukee we like big architecture that moves. Our stadium has a retractable roof and the museum has the wings.
 

Chet

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Planderella said:
Very interesting structure......
It is indeed. Viewed from the south, it appears as a bow of a ship with sails unfurled. Viewed from the lake, it looks like a seagull in flight, and from land (pictured) it looks like a whale tail breaking the surface (never mind Lake Michigan is an inland body of water....)
 

Tom R

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wind

I'm curious how it would stand up to a strong wind storm. I know that its built into the design, but I can see this thing winding up in Canada somewhere.
 

biscuit

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bturk said:
The Milwaukee Art Museum expansion edged out the WTC clean up and Pentagon reconstruction.
As well it should. I saw a television show (Modern Marvels or something like that) highlighting the complexity of building what amounts to an animated structure. One question. How does the museum fit in with the rest of the lakefront developments?
 

Chet

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Re: wind

Tom R said:
I'm curious how it would stand up to a strong wind storm. I know that its built into the design, but I can see this thing winding up in Canada somewhere.
The "wings" retract an lay down flat over the structure when winds are gusting or sustained over 30 mph (if I recall right).

They also flutter throughout the day, adjusting to the sun's position in order to keep direct light off of the art work, while still letting natural light into the gallery.
 

Repo Man

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Re: Re: YAY Our town took the 2003 National Civil Engineering Achievement Award

biscuit said:
How does the museum fit in with the rest of the lakefront developments?
There really are not a lot of lakefront developments. To the south there is a restaurant and a schooner project, further south is the Summerfest grounds - hardly an architectural gem. To the north there is basically greenspace, bike paths, a marina and a few ugly buildings.

The CIty probably will never open up the lakefront to any development. It is nice that they are taking this approach, however I think there is a place for some minor development like a restaurant/bar with outdoor seating.
 

Chet

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Re: Re: YAY Our town took the 2003 National Civil Engineering Achievement Award

biscuit said:
How does the museum fit in with the rest of the lakefront developments?
Milwaukee is a very architecturally conservative town. Most buildings look like this or some variation of it:



Most of the lakefront is public open space, with few exceptions.

This building is physically attached to a boxy 1960's building which houses a war memorial and the original art museum wing. This is it:



The fortunate thing is, your eye is drawn to this and not the original.
 

Greenescapist

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Going to see that museum is one of the things that I'm looking forward to when I move out to Wisconsin this summer. What an inventive looking structure- perfect for the waterfront setting.
 

Chet

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The building in motion

*refresh your browser while viewing this image and it will animate*

 
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It looks like there's an escalator or stairs in the spine or between the wings. Is that the case?
 

Chet

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Planderella said:
It looks like there's an escalator or stairs in the spine or between the wings. Is that the case?
Yes. The ped bridge connects you to downtown venues. Once inside, you go down to get to the gallery space.
 

Cardinal

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Re: wind

Tom R said:
I can see this thing winding up in Canada somewhere.
It is very unlikely to happen. The predominant wind is from the northwest. This thing will end up in Gary, Indiana.
 

Markitect

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Re: Re: Re: YAY Our town took the 2003 National Civil Engineering Achievement Award

bturk said:
Milwaukee is a very architecturally conservative town. Most buildings look like this or some variation of it:





I'll agree that Milwaukee has been architecturally conservative; though even that seems to be changing with some of the new projects under construction and on the drawing boards.

However, I will definitely disagree that "most buildings" in Milwaukee look like that monstrosity you've said most buildings here look like.

To be fair, one should browse through the rest of the website from which you snagged that photo to see an excellent sampling of Milwaukee's varied styles:

Milwaukee Architecture
 

Chet

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Re: Re: Re: Re: YAY Our town took the 2003 National Civil Engineering Achievement Award

Markitect said:
To be fair, one should browse through the rest of the website from which you snagged that photo to see an excellent sampling of Milwaukee's varied styles:

Milwaukee Architecture
You're right. I forgot these gems. ;)














*although cool for being the worlds largest four faced clock*

http://people.msoe.edu/~reyer/mke/1972as.jpg[img]

[img]http://people.msoe.edu/~reyer/mke/1965as.jpg




*our tallest target at 42 stories*





INSPIRED YET?

IMHO, the Calatrava was the first inspiring building to come along in the last 70 years.
 

Markitect

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: YAY Our town took the 2003 National Civil Engineering Achievement Award

bturk said:
You're right. I forgot these gems. ;)
I said varied styles. You've done nothing but post pictures of buildings mostly done in the typical 1960s-70s International/Modernist style (most of which, I would agree, are horrible).
 

Chet

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: YAY Our town took the 2003 National Civil Engineering Achievement Award

Markitect said:
I said varied styles. You've done nothing but post pictures of buildings mostly done in the typical 1960s-70s International/Modernist style (most of which, I would agree, are horrible).
Yes, except they represent the 1946-present offerings of our fine town. Other than the 6th street viaduct and the renovation of the PAC (Ugg did I just offer that?) show me a downtown post-1945 building that inspired you (and no renovations like the Marshall Field building which predates) New construction only. You won't find it on North Prospect Ave either....
 

PlannerByDay

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Re: The building in motion

bturk said:
*refresh your browser while viewing this image and it will animate*
SWEET, That is a pretty cool building. I have friends who are moving from Chigago up to Millwakee. When I visit them I am gonna have to check it out. Congrats on your City/Museum being choosen , it is a structure well worth an award.
 

Chet

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Re: Re: The building in motion

JoshD said:
SWEET, That is a pretty cool building. I have friends who are moving from Chigago up to Millwakee. When I visit them I am gonna have to check it out. Congrats on your City/Museum being choosen , it is a structure well worth an award.
Send me a PM when you're coming into town. I'll buy ya a brew if I'm around that weekend. (Gotta try to catch NHPlanner on cyburbia face - to -faces!)
 

Markitect

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: YAY Our town took the 2003 National Civil Engineering Achievement Award

bturk said:
Yes, except they represent the 1946-present offerings of our fine town. Other than the 6th street viaduct and the renovation of the PAC (Ugg did I just offer that?) show me a downtown post-1945 building that inspired you (and no renovations like the Marshall Field building which predates) New construction only. You won't find it on North Prospect Ave either....
I agreed with you that Milwaukee has been "architecturally conservative," and I agreed with you that we have several Modernist monstrosities.

However, I disagree with you that "most of" the architecture Milwaukee has to offer resembles the M&I Bank building you posted.

In other words, there are a whole lot of other buildings and styles--albeit also conservative--that Milwaukee has to offer. Not to mention there are a lot more architecturally conservative non-Internation/Modernist Style buildings out there than architecturally conservative International/Modernist Style buildings out there. That is the point I am making.

"Inspiration" is a separate topic from that (and quite honestly, since inspiration works on a personal level, you cannot really exclude any building, project, or time period--because buildings that you or I find inspiring may not be inspiring to somebody else, and vice versa).

That being said, there are a few post-1945 buildings that aren't architecturally conservative for Milwaukee (and limiting them to just Downtown, as you specified, is a little unfair):

- Milwaukee County War Memorial Center (1957) - Modernist yes; conservative, no
- Annunciation Greek Orthodox Church (1961) - OK, this one's in Wauwatosa - Not your regular ol' church
- Bayview Public Library (1993) - much nicer than those boxy 1960s libraries or suburban style libraries you see
- Milwaukee Art Museum - Quadracci Pavilion (2001) - this one's a given, naturally
- Bradley Technical High School (2002) - Certainly not like the early twentieth centurty brick building it's replacing, nor the bunker-like post-1950 school buildings
- Unnamed tower proposed for corner of Wisconsin Avenue and Broadway (proposed) - not your typical glass box
- Cathedral Place (under construction) - also not your typical glass box
- Kilbourn Tower (soon-to-be-under construction) - finally a residential tower on Prospect Avenue that's doesn't have boring, identical elevations on all four sides
- River Tower (proposed but dropped) - it's too this one fell through, as this was the most dynamic out of all the recently proposed towers
 
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Chet

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Markitect - I'll give you Bradley Tech and the Bay View Library. These are magnificent at the neighborhood level, but not on the grande civic landmark level.

I'll put a "we'll see about that" on Kilbourne Tower and Cathedral Place as I won't pass judgement on these unfinished projects until Iget a better idea of their contextual sensitivity (Whitney Gould can only take your imagination so far) :)
 

NHPlanner

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Re: Re: Re: The building in motion

bturk said:
Send me a PM when you're coming into town. I'll buy ya a brew if I'm around that weekend. (Gotta try to catch NHPlanner on cyburbia face - to -faces!)
Good luck! :)

We're (Mary Poppins and I) still going to try to work out an East Coast get together this summer....and unless you're in attendance (hint hint), you'll never catch me. ;)
 

Cardinal

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I'm with Markitect here. While I will grant that most buildings constructed in the last fifty years have been pretty awful, I don't think it is fair to single out Milwaukee as being any worse than other cities. The ones you show here are the biggest and most banal, but there are plenty of small buildings, both downtown and in Milwaukee's neighborhoods, that have merit. No, they are not grand civic statements or massive towers, but they are nice never-the-less.
 

BKM

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Can I sheepishly offer that some of the internationalist buildings are not that bad for their time (the brick colored/brick panel residential high rise)
 

Markitect

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bturk said:
Markitect - I'll give you Bradley Tech and the Bay View Library. These are magnificent at the neighborhood level, but not on the grande civic landmark level.
Neighborhood level? Civic landmark level? Post-1946 architecture? Downtown development? "Inspirational" architecture? Milwaukee architecture in general?

It's no wonder we're having disagreements--you keep changing the criteria used to evaluate Milwaukee's architecture.

I'll put a "we'll see about that" on Kilbourne Tower and Cathedral Place as I won't pass judgement on these unfinished projects until Iget a better idea of their contextual sensitivity (Whitney Gould can only take your imagination so far) :)
I mentioned those based on their based on their architectural renderings and how they compare to existing architecture across the board, not by contextual sensitivity or what Whitney says.

All of the buildings I listed are non-conservative because they are "out of the ordinary" buildings in Milwaukee--they don't look like your everyday, run of the mill buildings. Whether one likes or dislikes the way they look is a separate issue.
 

Chet

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Markitect said:
Neighborhood level? Civic landmark level? Post-1946 architecture? Downtown development? "Inspirational" architecture? Milwaukee architecture in general?

It's no wonder we're having disagreements--you keep changing the criteria used to evaluate Milwaukee's architecture.
In the contrary, I used those phrases to point out the things that jump out at me about them. I still dont find them particularly inspirational which was the original subective criteria we were debating.


Originally posted by Markitect
All of the buildings I listed are non-conservative because they are "out of the ordinary" buildings in Milwaukee--they don't look like your everyday, run of the mill buildings. Whether one likes or dislikes the way they look is a separate issue.
Care to elaborate? I'd really like to hear more of your thoughts on the buildings you listed which actually exist in Milwaukee in 2003, excluding the quadracci pavillion which obviously started this discussion (and I'm not being acerbic - I really do want to hear what you have to say). Please say more, and I might agree with you more:

- Milwaukee County War Memorial Center (1957)
- Bayview Public Library (1993) -
- Bradley Technical High School (2002)
 

Markitect

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bturk said:
In the contrary, I used those phrases to point out the things that jump out at me about them. I still dont find them particularly inspirational which was the original subective criteria we were debating.
Not to be contrary to your being in the contrary, but I haven't been debating inspirational architecture with you--I've been debating your statement that most architecture in Milwaukee looks like the examples you posted of architecturally conservative International/Modernist Style buildings.

I don't really see conservative architecture as being based on opinion. The architecture either looks like much of the rest of the buildings (it looks common, regular, predictable, the design is reserved in some way, etc.), or it does someting that makes it stand out from the rest--in which case it is non-conservative. In other words, a building is either architecturally conservative or it isn't. That is the basis for my list of buildings.

On the other hand, inspirational architecture is based on opinion. It is based on how an individual experiences architecture, or how it makes one feel. It is about emotion. A building doesn't have too look like something (such as the Calatrava looks like a bird or ship) in order to be inspirational. In that respect, somebody can look at a building (whether it's convervative or not) and be inspired by it, and somebody else can look at the same building and not be inspired by it.

Care to elaborate? I'd really like to hear more of your thoughts on the buildings you listed which actually exist in Milwaukee in 2003, excluding the quadracci pavillion which obviously started this discussion (and I'm not being acerbic - I really do want to hear what you have to say). Please say more, and I might agree with you more:
Sure. I am going to add some others that I have remembered in the meantime too. Keep in mind, this is a list of buildings that are architecturally non-conservative, not necessarily buildings I think are inspirational.

- Milwaukee County War Memorial Center (1957)
There weren't any buildings that looked like this in Milwaukee when it was built, and there aren't any buildings that look like it today. It is one of the few buildings in town I can think of that was designed to be more than just a building, but a sculpture (as is the Quadracci Pavillion next door), which is a common theme in architect Eero Saarinen's works. He was a very non- conservative architect (see the Gateway Arch in St. Louis, TWA Terminal in NYC, Dulles Airport near DC). Not only is the building form a sculptural piece, the front facade also includes a mosaic depicting the years of WWII and the Korean War--which isn't a typical form of building artwork (as little of it that we have here, most consists of painted murals).

- Mitchell Park Horticultural Conservatory ["the Domes"] (1959)
Just the fact that these are glass domes sets them apart from any other archietcture in Milwaukee (and with some excpetions, set apart from architecture anywhere).

- Bayview Public Library (1993)
Most of the libraries in the system are low-flung, boxy, brick bunkers built during the 1960s (take a look at them on the MPL's website). The Bay Vew Branch, however, stands out among them because it is remarkably different from the rest of them. It's not just a box for books like the others. It has it's own identity; it's own form.

- Beerline River Homes (Phase I, 2001; Phase II under construction)
While most of the new construction going on in the Beerline area is more architecturally conservative, the River Homes are pretty unique. The condos have a sort of industrial/Wrightian design to them, while the surrounding developments are more traditional-looking and mimic qualities from older buildings in the area (which is a characteristic that most of the recent small scale residential developments in town share). River Homes boldly stands out. You don't see a lot of residential archietcure like this in Milwaukee.

- Lynde & Harry Bradley School of Technology & Trade (2002)
The architecture of this school is unlike any other in MPS. It stands out quite a bit from the usual deco and/or bunker-like school buildings around the city (and the suburbs). Not only is it structurally expressive, exterior and interior, but it also employs some "green building" technologies that other newer schools in the area may not have.

Thus, these are examples of some of Milwaukee's non-conservative architecture. People may or may not find them inspirational, they may or may not be symbolic civic icons of the city, but they all are unique buildings for Milwaukee in that they push the envelope of design (maybe not far enough in all cases) and stand out against the usual traditonal, modern, and post-modern stuff we have here.
 

Chet

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Markitect said:
Not to be contrary to your being in the contrary....
Cool. Im glad you took the time to post a thoughtful response. And I forgot about the beer line - excellent.
 

Repo Man

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The problem with Milwaukee is the buildings that bturk posted are the ones that dominate the skyline as you come into town. When you get to street level you get some much better examples (although I would agree that most of them were not constructed after 1940).
 
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