YOU GO GURLFRIEND! (fka What is it about women...)

[Downtown]

What is it about women and their uncanny ability to put down and insult people?

Ok, this is to deal with Beaner's question - why are many women seemingly so much more hypercritical of people than men are. Or are they? .02 anyone?

 

[Planderella]

Women are probably more observant than men and are probably more willing to voice their observations, hence sounding hypercritical at times.

 

[Downtown]

My own observation about people who cut other people down is that it is about insecurity. And I think it is very safe to say that *in general* women, as a whole, are a lot more insecure than men. Its a comparison thing, maybe a woman is feeling insecure about how much money she has, or her hair or her GRE score, blah blah blah, so they someone who is larger than them and they think "Well, at least I'm not fat" and by drawing attention to the other person's "problem", it makes her feel better about her own crap she's carrying around in her head, gives her a fleeting sense of superiority.

 

[SW MI Planner]

Or are they?

Absolutely! Positively!

And I think it is very safe to say that *in general* women, as a whole, are a lot more insecure than men.

I would say that not only are they more critical of other people than men are, but more critical of themselves as well.
I also think women are more competitive with each other than men are? (I don't know, men feel free to jump in here). I would think that insecurity plays a big part in this.

 

[Chet]

Oh, I wish I would have seen this thread before I replie din the other....

 

[PlannerGirl]

yes i think women are more competitive with other women, look at arab nations where women where those big back things *cant recall the name of them* but under them in places like Saudi Arabia they are dressed to the nines in top designer clothing. they get in the company of other women and the black stuff comes off and they are critical of each other. now no man but their husband is going ot see them so they are not dressing for men ot see them-only other women.

i saw this in the sorority as well-it disgusted me to no end

 

[Repo Man]

Many, but not all, women are more critical of people, especially other women. Every single place I have worked there have been problems between women co-workers. I have noticed that women in clerical/secretarial positions are often catty around women in professional positions.

 

[Chet]

I have noticed that women in clerical/secretarial positions are often catty around women in professional positions.

I G*d yes. We have 3 of 11 Dept Heads that are women. It really shows in how they are treated.

 

[Planderella]

Many, but not all, women are more critical of people, especially other women. Every single place I have worked there have been problems between women co-workers. I have noticed that women in clerical/secretarial positions are often catty around women in professional positions.

OMG - you hit the nail on the head. I had to EARN the trust, respect, etc. of the women in the clerical pool when I worked for the city. It was a long uphill battle before they realized that I was not out to make their lives more miserable or whatever.

 

[Repo Man]

I have noticed that problems usually arise when the woman in the professional position are around the same age as the secretaries. The older secretaries treat the professional women with respect. The ones the same age treat them with contempt. I think they probably look at the woman in the professional position and become jealous that a person their age is in a great position and usually makes double what the secretary makes. I guess it goes back to the insecurity thing.

 

[Downtown]

Many, but not all, women are more critical of people, especially other women. Every single place I have worked there have been problems between women co-workers. I have noticed that women in clerical/secretarial positions are often catty around women in professional positions.

I had a hard time with this in SC - I got along great with the admin when I was an intern, but once i was hired on full time, a couple problems arose.

I was just talking about this with my best friend the other weekend - she's a schoolteacher and was telling me all about the bullshit that was going down in their staff meetings, and a lot of what was going on would never happen in an environment with predominantly male co-workers. Our water department has an inordinate amount of female admin staff and the drama that goes on down there is unbelievable.

 

[Cardinal]

I think you are correct about women being more catty and/or insecure then men. Women tend to spend more time thinking about things. Men, if we notice at all, would prefer not to think about them. If we had the choice, we would probably not think at all. Just drink more beer. Beer is a woman's best friend. The more men drink, the less men notice women's flaws. Conversly, the more beer men drink, the more women notice our flaws. Either way, it can be a very self-affirming experience for women. So tonight, ladies, build your self esteem. Bring your man a cold beer or two.

 

[Tranplanner]

I really can't understand why you're still single Mike

 

[Chet]

Bring your man a cold beer or two.

Yeah ladies. Nothing screams SEX APPEAL like a man crinkling an empty beer can and waving at you so you get him another.

 

[Wannaplan?]

Interesting. Let me throw this one out there: Assuming the professional assistants and executives are the same age, do you think it makes a difference if the professional assistants have children and the executive does not?

I have noticed that problems usually arise when the woman in the professional position are around the same age as the secretaries. The older secretaries treat the professional women with respect. The ones the same age treat them with contempt. I think they probably look at the woman in the professional position and become jealous that a person their age is in a great position and usually makes double what the secretary makes. I guess it goes back to the insecurity thing.

 

[Cardinal]

I really can't understand why you're still single Mike

Pretty amazing, isn't it?

 

[Downtown]

Interesting. Let me throw this one out there: Assuming the professional assistants and executives are the same age, do you think it makes a difference if the professional assistants have children and the executive does not?

i don't know. i do know that this is a general problem a lot of my friends have, even with male co-workers. and i have heard a lot of, especially with volunteering things, "Well, how come you[/] don't have time to do xyz, its not like you have kids or anything."
WTF? i just think that's so crappy.

 

[El Feo]

So tonight, ladies, build your self esteem. Bring your man a cold beer or two.

Holy crap, this is the funniest post of the day! Now I have to go beg IS for a new keyboard to replace the one I just spit coffee all over...

 

[Cardinal]

i don't know. i do know that this is a general problem a lot of my friends have, even with male co-workers. and i have heard a lot of, especially with volunteering things, "Well, how come you[/] don't have time to do xyz, its not like you have kids or anything."
WTF? i just think that's so crappy.

This is a huge problem. Childless and unmarried people are definitely discriminated against. Think of the military. How many times have you heard people moan about how somebody in the reserves shouldn't have to be activated because they have a kid? Or how about my favorite, send the single people on the dangerous mission. Yeah, like I really want so much more to get killed because I'm not married. WTF?

 

[donk]

its not like you have kids or anything.

I get this one all of the time and end up, at the last minute having to do after hours work because "little johnny has hockey practice and I can't make it".

If I had a wife / girlfriend, my response to this statement would probably be, "well tonight we were going to work on that very item, if you had not offloaded your responsibilities to me"

 

[Repo Man]

People with kids get away with a lot more. One person here leaves early or comes in late all the time because her kids are in trouble or her kids (who I believe are teenagers) are sick. Look, I understand if you have to leave early in rare circumstances, but 2-3 times a week is a crock. It seems like having kids is a carte blanche for coming and going as you please. Nobody ever second guesses them either.

I can't wait til I have kids. If I want to leave early for a baseball game or to beat traffic when I am going on vacation, I will have a nice built-in excuse.

 

[NHPlanner]

People with kids get away with a lot more. One person here leaves early or comes in late all the time because her kids are in trouble or her kids (who I believe are teenagers) are sick. Look, I understand if you have to leave early in rare circumstances, but 2-3 times a week is a crock. It seems like having kids is a carte blanche for coming and going as you please. Nobody ever second guesses them either.

I can't wait til I have kids. If I want to leave early for a baseball game or to beat traffic when I am going on vacation, I will have a nice built-in excuse.

Speaking from the "those with kids" camp:

A lot of it IS legitimate. Then again, I take the responsibility of making sure that I get all my work done that needs to be if I am called away from work, or late because Kylie is sick or needs to be picked up when my wife isn't able to.

 

[Repo Man]

A lot of it IS legitimate.

Not with this particular lady. 1/4 is legit, 1/4 is questionable, and 1/2 is bs.

 

[NHPlanner]

Not with this particular lady. 1/4 is legit, 1/4 is questionable, and 1/2 is bs.

I can only speak for myself....and I've eaten up a lot of sick time for the times when Kylie was sick, and my wife, not having sick time available, isn't able to stay home with her.

I'm sure there are those that abuse it, but most people I know don't.

 

[Wannaplan?]

Assuming that most women are the primary caregivers, do you think that's why national statistics show that women, on average, get paid less than men?

People with kids get away with a lot more. One person here leaves early or comes in late all the time because her kids are in trouble or her kids (who I believe are teenagers) are sick. Look, I understand if you have to leave early in rare circumstances, but 2-3 times a week is a crock. It seems like having kids is a carte blanche for coming and going as you please. Nobody ever second guesses them either.

 

[Chet]

Think of the military. How many times have you heard people moan about how somebody in the reserves shouldn't have to be activated because they have a kid? ... WTF?

*looks at Mike D*

 

[Cardinal]

*looks at Mike D*

No offense, Mike.

We were having this discussion in the office yesterday. Some woman wanted a hardship discharge because her unit was activated and she had a 5-month old. Too bad. She knew what she was commiting to when she signed up.

The reserves do a good job of helping you to plan for mobilization. One of my squad leaders (no kids) ended up losing his business as a result of GW1. He didn't ask for a hardship, he closed his shop. I knew another soldier who's father was dying of cancer. He didn't ask for a hardship, he said goodbye.

Going to war isn't easy. I sympathize with everyone who has to go, but I do not have any more sympathy for the ones with kids than I do for the ones without. They will all be giving up things that are important to them.

 

[SW MI Planner]

Assuming that most women are the primary caregivers, do you think that's why national statistics show that women, on average, get paid less than men?

No, I'm pretty sure it's the men at the top of the ladder that try to keep the woman down by trying to belittle their existince all the while trying retain their manly, important, reputation.

An example.....

So tonight, ladies, build your self esteem. Bring your man a cold beer or two.

BTW, I'm kidding, so no flames por favor.

 

[Chet]

An example.....

Just keeps reminding me of my favorite married line: "Hey Honey - This beer ain't gittin itself!"

 

[Jen]

Ohthe children card, it does happen! people cannot use that as an excuse to avoid their commitments. Having said that I think a parent should be the primary care provider of their own child the majority of the time!

it is a huge sacrifice to which ever parent leaves the job force, hey wait a minute.. what thread is this?

Oh yeah women with the uncanny ability to put down and insult people should be avoided at all costs, same with superficial whiny guys who hold grudges.

 

[Tranplanner]

same with superficial whiny guys who hold grudges.

I'll get you for that Jen!

 

[Jeff]

I heard my name.

The hardship discharge thing because you're a parent is a crock.

I grappled with the fact of whether or not to go back to my unit and go to Kuwait with them, but in the end, decided to stay here more or less because my wife would have never forgiven me for leaving her 6 months pregnant.


For the record, I was honorably discharged 6 months prior to my unit being mobilized, no hardship discharge here

I think the problem with the reserves is that too many of those in the reserves just don't take it seriously. I think alot of people were unprepared for this mobilization

 

[Cardinal]

No, I'm pretty sure it's the men at the top of the ladder that try to keep the woman down by trying to belittle their existince all the while trying retain their manly, important, reputation.

Hey, if a woman wants to be on top, I'm more than willing to help her climb the ladder.

 

[Chet]

Hey, if a woman wants to be on top, I'm more than willing to help her climb the ladder.

After all, the best way to make a temp secretary permanent is to screw her on the desk.

 

[Habanero]

I'm always willing to hold a good man down.

And for the record, I do have an uncanny ability to put people down/in their place, but I don't do it for pleasure, I do it only if provoked and in the *right* setting. I would never lash out at a co-worker, but you can believe I would make sure I played the game right if it was a male co-worker.

I really hate the competion between women- like we're out for blood. There is one up here who is fairly vulgar and a bulldog and can't understand why she hasn't met a man- duh- it's because you're one of those women! I have no problem getting men beer, my philosophy, I'm happier when they're too busy watching tv to give me crap and it gets me what I want in the long run.

 

[Planderella]

I'm always willing to hold a good man down.

And for the record, I do have an uncanny ability to put people down/in their place, but I don't do it for pleasure, I do it only if provoked and in the *right* setting. I would never lash out at a co-worker, but you can believe I would make sure I played the game right if it was a male co-worker.

I really hate the competion between women- like we're out for blood. There is one up here who is fairly vulgar and a bulldog and can't understand why she hasn't met a man- duh- it's because you're one of those women! I have no problem getting men beer, my philosophy, I'm happier when they're too busy watching tv to give me crap and it gets me what I want in the long run.

We are the same person!!

 

[Downtown]

Assuming that most women are the primary caregivers, do you think that's why national statistics show that women, on average, get paid less than men?

I would generally agree with this - a lot of professional women I know have chosen to stay home, cut back hours or switched to low paying part time jobs for the time flexibility when they have kids, which puts a dent in their earning power.

 

[Dan]

Assuming that most women are the primary caregivers, do you think that's why national statistics show that women, on average, get paid less than men?

It's an urban legend. Next someone will post that Marilyn Monroe wore a size 18 dress, or that Bill Gates will send me a thousand bucks if I forward an e-mail to ten people.

Yes, women do get paid 73 cents for every dollar that a man earns. That's comparing ALL women with ALL men, though ... day care center workers are lumped right in there with civil engineers. When you compare the figures for the same profession, the discrepancy is usually reduced to a few cents, attributed to the fact that more men have been working in a field longer than their female colleauges.

Wish I had a cite ... sorry.

 

[SkeLeton]

Now going back to the subject...
I think that women tend to be more hypercritical, because they are more concerned about details than men. From when are women are concerned with details? I'd think it's from pre-historical times, because women were dedicated to recolection of vegetables and fruit, men hunted. This doesn't mean that men can't have a concern for detail or if they do they're gay... It's more of a mindset and eye sharpness, it doesn't have to do much with sexuality.

So women tend to criticize more than men because they see more things and generally more faults, because in pre-historical times it was their responsability to bring the best vegetables and best fruit for the group.

That's my explaination...quite simple.

 

[Habanero]

Now going back to the subject...
I think that women tend to be more hypercritical, because they are more concerned about details than men. From when are women are concerned with details? I'd think it's from pre-historical times, because women were dedicated to recolection of vegetables and fruit, men hunted. This doesn't mean that men can't have a concern for detail or if they do they're gay... It's more of a mindset and eye sharpness, it doesn't have to do much with sexuality.

So women tend to criticize more than men because they see more things and generally more faults, because in pre-historical times it was their responsability to bring the best vegetables and best fruit for the group.

That's my explaination...quite simple.

I'd have to say it was our desire to pick the best mate that made us so hypercritical, not our vegetable picking skills.

 

[Cardinal]

I'd have to say it was our desire to pick the best mate that made us so hypercritical, not our vegetable picking skills.

Picking men, picking vegetable, isn't it all really the same thing?

OK, now that I've bashed my own sex a little, one of you gals want to bring me a beer?

 

[SW MI Planner]

OK, now that I've bashed my own sex a little, one of you gals want to bring me a beer?

Shoot, I'll get you a beer as long as you pick up mine too

 

[Wannaplan?]

But not all women "pick" the "best" mates. I can think of numerous women who are essentially indiscriminate in regards to their mate choices. There are thousands, if not millions, of women in this country and around the world who will let any man impregnate them. It's not like they want the most "fit" man to be the father of their offspring. It's a far more devious strategy: More fathers can mean more resources for the mother and her offspring. This is a more generalist strategy, and, on the surface, it doesn't seem like details matter in this scenario.

Regarding the tendencies of one gender being more detail-oriented than the other, I would have to say this doesn't make sense to me. In prehistoric times, if it were the men who did the hunting, then I am sure they would be quite specific about which habitat, what time of day, and which weather patterns offered the best conditions to provide the highest possibility of a successful kill. No sense in going out to the savanah when you know it's likely that no game will be found. Why waste the energy? To me, this involves planning and requires intimate knowledge about your surroundings. In short, it is a detail-oriented activity. We can see this today in male hunters who must have the right gun, the right ammo, the right tree stand, the right tree, and the right view to increase their chances to kill a massive buck.

Both men and women are detail-oriented. It depends on the activity and if they are serious or passionate about it. The question shouldn't be "Are women more detail-oriented than men?" but rather, "For men and women, which activities promote a high level of attention to detail?"

I don't mean to go off on an evolutionary biology tangent here, but SkeLeton did introduce the prehistoric human behavior stereotypes into the discussion.

I'd have to say it was our desire to pick the best mate that made us so hypercritical, not our vegetable picking skills.

 

[Downtown]

Both men and women are detail-oriented. It depends on the activity and if they are serious or passionate about it. The question shouldn't be "Are women more detail-oriented than men?" but rather, "For men and women, which activities promote a high level of attention to detail?"

There was an article in last week's paper about a study that was just published that basically put out there that when shown a photo that is highly emotionally charged is shown to a group of people, the women consistently remembered more details about the photo than men did, and when they did the brain scan or whatever, women had 3 times as many regions of their brain triggered than men did. I'm trying so hard to find a link to the article, it was pretty neat.

 

[Chet]

Picking men, picking vegetable, isn't it all really the same thing?

Only if you're picking cucumbers.

 

[Seabishop]

Only if you're picking cucumbers.

Remember what the doctor said, bturk, its not supposed to be green.

 

[Repo Man]

There was an article in last week's paper about a study that was just published that basically put out there that when shown a photo that is highly emotionally charged is shown to a group of people, the women consistently remembered more details about the photo than men did, and when they did the brain scan or whatever, women had 3 times as many regions of their brain triggered than men did. I'm trying so hard to find a link to the article, it was pretty neat.

I recall hearing of another study that said that if a woman is attractive, men will forget the first 15 seconds or so of what that woman is saying. If I can find it online, I wll post a link.

 

[Cardinal]

I recall hearing of another study that said that if a woman is attractive, men will forget the first 15 seconds or so of what that woman is saying. If I can find it online, I wll post a link.

There was a study published that said if a man found a woman attractive, the woman would complain that he kept staring at her breasts instead of listening to what she said. If I can find the link, I will post it.